Mixing Drums (ahhhh)

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mastahnke

mastahnke

Linux Man...
I started working on a project where I am mixing a drum set. The mics for the tracks were:
Bass - Shure Beta 52
Snare - Shure SM57
Overhead - Shure large Condensor (not sure on number)
Crash Cymbal one - AT condensor (small)
Crash Cymbal Two - AT condensor (small)

anyway, I recorded them digitally and don't really like the sound, but that is what I have to work with. I was wondering first off, how do I make the bass drum have more presence. Right now it just sounds like nothing. I mean you can hear it, but it sounds dead and plain. I am thinking some parametric eq and reverb is in order, any suggestions on what type or kind. I have the TC Native and Essntials Packs.
Next, what about panning? Should I hard pan the cymbals? Cause I think that sounds cool through headphones. What reverb should I use on the snare too? I am just looking for suggestoins.

MIKE
 
Well, I don't have any answers for you, but I was just wondering how you liked th TC native bundle. I downloaded the demo and I'm pretty impressed- I love the way it's set up, it's seems really intuitive to use- unlike the Cakewalk stuff I've been using which is like pulling teeth :mad: The demo just has persets and you can't really change them to much, but I defintly like the compressor especially so far- the parmetric EQ haen't really thrilled me yet but I can't do anything with that joystick in the demo, which might make it better for me (it's such a neat idea)

Ok back to your question, maybe for the kick you could try a filter- like a bandstop or bandpeak (less specifically bandpass) you can really hone in on some particular frequencies and pull stuff out and take stuff away. I use the cakewalk CFX 2-band eq, but I won't suggest it cause the interface is crappy- it's taken me a month to even figure out what I'm doing with it. But if you know your stuff, it seems like you can make it happen.

Well now that I've been absolutly no help whatsoever- later

-jhe
 
Ah yes drums! I have been recording, in and out of pro studios and home studios for over 25 years now, and the most time consuming part is getting good drum sounds. Some studios opt for using their own drum kit exclusively. They keep it tuned and miked the way it works for them.

Any good drum technician can make a lot of money in the LA area, just going from studio to studio tuning drums!

So have fun, experiment, take notes on mic placement and let your ears tell you when it's right. When you think you've got a great drum sound, compare it to a favorite recording you have.

Sincerely;

Dom Franco
 
Try compressing the kick if you haven't already. I normally don't use any other EQ or effect on a kick track, but just experiment to see what works for you. Noramally, I add a good amount of compression to a rather dull kick track and it really comes to life, jumping out at me and I have to turn it down in the mix. I would also experiment with compression on the snare to see how it changes the sound you have recorded. I have had some bad experiences putting too much reverb on snare tracks, so I normally try to keep them on the dry side. Snare is the hardest for me to effect/EQ and I usually end up having to settle with a sound I can live with, so I don't really have much advice on it.

For the panning, I either pan the entire kit to model the way it sounds when either standing in front of the drums listening or the way it sounds when you are behind the drums playing. I'm not sure what pros do for this, but I have used both ways depending on how each sounds in a song. If hard panning on a cymbal sounds cool to you though, do it.

If you can get a miked drum kit to sound the way you want, then I think you have really achieved something in recording. Good luck.
 
Thanks for those who have replied.

About the TC Native bundle... I love it. The reverb is one of the best I have ever used. The Parametric EQ is great too, haven't used the other stuff too much. I would recomend getting your hands on a copy.

About the drums, I figured I would just have to experiment, as that is always a good solution. I guess my next question would be about compression. Do compressors in software (IE TC Essentials and Native) sound as good as a good outboard compressor? I could borrow a Berringher Composer from a friend of mine, or just use my software. Wish I had a Joe Meek or some tube compressor, but I don't have the available funds. So, any opinions on that? Plus, how much compression do I want? No matter how much I read about compressors, they still seem a bit of a mystery to me...

MIKE
 
I won't get into the actual drum set up ... but make sure everything is tuned up real nice and has new heads. You would be amazed at how much easier it is get good results if you just put new heads on and tune them up.
How far away from the beater did you place the Beta52?
Reset the placement of the mic before you reach for that EQ knob even though it's tempting to just fix it at the board. What works well for me is having the mic placed inside the drum about 4-5" away from the beater. I don't use any EQ when tracking and it comes across pretty good. Move the mic closer to the beater if you want more 'snap'.
Another thing I just did recently to improve my drum sound was to move every mic an additional 1-2" away from each drum. I found that if you're too close ... it will be too boomy. I used to compensate with EQ ... but found that backing off the mics would not only make it easier to get a good sound ... but also can avoid the EQ and extra signal path associated with it.
I avoid reverb on kick drum ... I like it to be really well defined and in your face.
On snare I usually use a combination of a gate or very short room verb along with a plate or hall with a slightly longer decay. I also put this longer verb on the toms and slightly on overheads. Don't mix in too much of this long verb, though. It is really just to give the whole kit it's own space so it should be subtle and not exaggerated. Your choice of verb may also depend on the room you're recording the drums in ... if you have a lot of the room coming into the mics ... then I'd try to work with that rather than adding another short verb in with it.
Cymbals, I do an XY stereo mic config (at about 120º angle) with each panned hard left and right. It takes a bit of trial and error to get a good stereo image ... but when you finally do ... it's worth it.
Compressors ... I usually only compress the snare ... sometimes the kick. It depends alot on how consistent the drummer is ... a newbie drummer will maybe need a little more compression so that each hit is of even volume. It also depends on the type of music you're recording ... one setting for rock drums could be completely different than for jazz drums (mic placement too could be different).
Anyway, hope that helps! I think recording drums is one of the most fun things about recording. When you finally get the sound you like, you really feel like you've accomplished something.
:)
Good Luck

[This message has been edited by BigKahuna (edited 04-07-2000).]
 
You didn't mention what kind of soud you would like to hear.

Guessing that you won't be recording it again, I would reach for the Eq.

Is your kick a litle cloudy? try cutting between 200-600Hz.
If you boost in the lows you'll get a low power thump.
If you want more attack ,defenition and impact try to boost at 3-5kHz.

Do you want to blow your door off? try this -compress your kick -10dB at 2:1, boost at around 100Hz, use a noisegate
toshut the boom a few milisecs after the initial impact.

Reverb - I personaly don't like it on kick but some people use it for funk or some rock stuff but chances are you will muddy the mix.

As for snare for me it's also a style issue are you going for a ballad ? rock? Funk? Dance?
I tune my reverberation many times acording to the style
I also use more then 1 reverb on a snare many times.
You might try this - a bright hall or a plate with a short decay time (about 1/2 a sec.)in short something with a tight ambience. then try to run it through a larger hall with a decay time of 2 - 3.5 secs.




[This message has been edited by Shailat (edited 04-08-2000).]
 
Oops sorry Mike .. I didn't know this was the mixing forum. Kinda hard to reposition the mics when it's already on tape! :)
Sorry bout that.
 
ITs ok, It can't to learn more for next time. Most of mic placement was pretty close to what you recoemended though....

MIKE
 
Hey, Shailot's advice sounds pretty right on to me. I personally don't like digital reverb on snare, unless you have a really fancy reverb it always sounds really fake to me. One thing you could try is this: mult the snare to two channels on your board. Keep one uncompressed, and compress the daylights out of the other one. The compression should bring up the sustain of the drum as well as some room sound. This will fill out the sound some. You usually won't need to have too much of the compressed channel in the mix. The Behringer composer will work fine for this. As far as general advice, if you can record the drums onto analog at all, DO IT! Hit the tape HARD. Drums really take well to tape saturation I think. Anytime I've recorded drums straight into the computer they always seem to be lacking....and maybe try putting the kick mic out in front of the drum to get more of the whole sound of the kick, rather than just the beater attack. Most people probably disagree with me on this, but I like it...
 
Kik Mix

Tune Tune Tune

Starting point
...Tight front(resonant) head approx 1 full turn of each lug from just finger tight on and batter head a little losser 1/2 turn from finger tight. Insure that a pillow or folded blanket just folds touching the resonant and batter head but overall consumes less then 5% of the drum volume.

CUT 75hz if your board has the option to reduce floor rumble with a low cut switch "as most boards do" and flatten(mid) all but bump 80hz by a few +3-5 DB.

Gate to remove any unwanted ring carry. Use min compression - long release or it will squash the volume(body) of the kicks sound.

MIC 1"-5" in front of or just inside the 5"-7" port that should be cut approx 2" from the edge of the resonant head. this allows you to play with the amount of tone or attack you want.
 
granted ive only been actively recording for about 8 months now, but im just now getting to the point in which i can get a halfway decent recorded sound out of my kit. i refuse to use a drum-machine or any sound not produced by me whacking a stick against a drum-head or cymbal. im limited by budget, mics, room, etc, but im trying every crazy combo and technique i can think of. hopefully in the long run, ill learn a bunch out of all this. for now, its coming along slowly but surely. i know this ramble has nothing to do with the topic, i just wanted to comment on how difficult it can be to get real drums sounding really good in real situations.
 
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