Mixing down advice & CDr compatiblity

J

Jags

New member
I read somewhere on this forum that you will not get mixdowns to be as loud as proferssional recordings, why is that? I have been trying to get my songs as close to the volume of the professional stuff as possible by setting the volume quite high (4-5db) during 'mastering' in cubase VST. I take it this is bad... i have managed to get the volume acceptably close to other CDs but i did notice some distortion on some louder passages during the songs. Does this mean that they have to be quiet? Is there anything that can be done?

Also, the cds i create seem to work fine on my stereo, but when I play them in my sony cd walkman they are pretty tempremental, sometimes distorting badly and sometimes leaving large gaps between tracks. I use the Toshiba CD wizard which came bundled with my cd writer to burn the cds, will this be the most likely culprit (could it be the walkman itself?), and if so can you advise a better (preferably free) program for burning cds? I've had the same problems using both Kodak CDr ultimas and TDK CDr XG 'for audio' cdrs.

Thanks

Jags
 
I am only a beginner so I am sure the pro's will squash me if I say something wrong, but what the heck! If you concentrate on getting your mix to sound right - not like a CD but like good music with everything balances etc. A mastering studio can add the final touches and bring in that extra volume you are missing. If you absolutely can't afford it you may be able to produce something aceptable by buying either T-racks mastering software or the new Ozone by Izotope. But be warned, they take a long time to learn!

Good luck though - keep truckin'

Mark
 
Jags,

I had the exact same problem recently, and I found the perfect solution! Go to www.db-audioware.com, and click on the link to their Direct X plug-ins. You'll find a FREE demo download for something called the "db Dynamics Processor". This is a compressor/limiter that will even out the loud and soft passages of your tunes so that they won't distort so much upon playback on certain stereo systems. This is the same type of unit the "Big Boys" use on most professional recordings. When you download this demo, you also get demo's for some of their other products, including a final-stage "mastering limiter", which will allow you to transparently "boost" your loudness without changing your mix settings that much (just a tweak here and there. . .). I used both this and the compressor together on my recent home recordings, and it took care of the same problems you were having very well. BTW, my recordings played well on every sound system except my car's (before I found the demo downloads, that is. . .)! LOL!!! I actually consider my car audio system to be the ULTIMATE judge of whether my mixes are good, or crap!!! :>)

Brian
 
Brian R. said:
Jags,

This is the same type of unit the "Big Boys" use on most professional recordings.
Brian
Click to expand...

Man, this this guys ( http:www.freqmastering.com ) is in a world of hurt! He shouldn't have spent that $100,000 on this mastering suite and gear when he could have bought a $500 PC and $1000 worth of software to master!!! I should let him know of the error of his ways. I am sure he will see the light and sell off all that junk stuff he has and just use DirectX plugin's to master in the future. :rolleyes:

sjoko2 hit it on the head here. Hell, I have tried to master, and while I am not too bad at it, I still cannot get the same results as you hear on big time recordings. I have the full array of DirectX plug's and usually start off with pretty good sounding mixes. But still, the end results are just not as cool sounding. Call it a lack of experience coupled with poor solutions. As the experience gains, I start to realize the importance of top quality gear for mastering. I remember when I first tried out software only solutions and though "Man, I can rule the world with this stuff and never pay a mastering engineer again!". Ha!!! After I got over the initial "Gee whiz" of it, I realized that the low res, low internal bit depth stuff just wasn't up to the task of competing with quality mastering gear. Class A stuff that cost several thousands of dollars each. Most of you will look back in a couple of years and realize how futile current DirectX plugs really are and laugh that you thought it could compete with the real stuff used in big time mastering.

Experience is a whole other thing too. When you pop in most professionally done CD's from a big label, you are usually hearing the work of people who have dedicated themselves to audio work. They do A LOT of it and suffer critical review from peers. Getting to that kind of experience and work quality level has NO shortcuts. None of these guys just started a few months ago and kicked out that kind of work, ESPECIALLY in mastering!

A little hint. Watch your 100-250Hz region while mixing/mastering. This stuff will eat up metering in a hurry, and are the most problematic frequencies in badly treated rooms.

Good luck.

Ed
 
sonusman said:


Man, this this guys ( http:www.freqmastering.com ) is in a world of hurt! He shouldn't have spent that $100,000 on this mastering suite and gear when he could have bought a $500 PC and $1000 worth of software to master!!! I should let him know of the error of his ways. I am sure he will see the light and sell off all that junk stuff he has and just use DirectX plugin's to master in the future. :rolleyes:


sjoko2 hit it on the head here. Hell, I have tried to master, and while I am not too bad at it, I still cannot get the same results as you hear on big time recordings. I have the full array of DirectX plug's and usually start off with pretty good sounding mixes. But still, the end results are just not as cool sounding. Call it a lack of experience coupled with poor solutions. As the experience gains, I start to realize the importance of top quality gear for mastering. I remember when I first tried out software only solutions and though "Man, I can rule the world with this stuff and never pay a mastering engineer again!". Ha!!! After I got over the initial "Gee whiz" of it, I realized that the low res, low internal bit depth stuff just wasn't up to the task of competing with quality mastering gear. Class A stuff that cost several thousands of dollars each. Most of you will look back in a couple of years and realize how futile current DirectX plugs really are and laugh that you thought it could compete with the real stuff used in big time mastering.


Experience is a whole other thing too. When you pop in most professionally done CD's from a big label, you are usually hearing the work of people who have dedicated themselves to audio work. They do A LOT of it and suffer critical review from peers. Getting to that kind of experience and work quality level has NO shortcuts. None of these guys just started a few months ago and kicked out that kind of work, ESPECIALLY in mastering!


A little hint. Watch your 100-250Hz region while mixing/mastering. This stuff will eat up metering in a hurry, and are the most problematic frequencies in badly treated rooms.

Good luck.

Ed
Click to expand...
Actually, Ed. . . I didn't buy "$1000 worth of software to master", I bought a book by Craig Anderton called "Home Recording for Musicians" to use with my Cakewalk program. Total cost: $25.00
And I never said that the Direct X plug-ins would be better than the expensive stuff. That phrase of mine you so eagerly quoted just meant that "compression/limiters" and their ilk are the TOOLS that the pro's use. It sounded as if Jags has never used them before, so I was just making a suggestion.

Funny, 'cuz I get pretty DAMN good results using these DirectX plug-ins, better, in some cases, than the product I've heard put out by some other local musicians using local "pro" studios that charge an arm and a leg. I got the feeling that Jags was just somebody doing some home recording and wanted some advice on an inexpensive, yet top-quality, way of doing some excellent-sounding mixes. If he/she (I don't mean to offend ya, Jags, but I don't know your gender!) had spent "$100,000" on a mastering suite and gear, as you so eloquently stated, wouldn't it logically follow that he/she is taking the final mixes to a "pro" studio to have it done "right", as opposed to just burning off copies on a cd-burner? After all, if somebody has spent $100,000 (or anywhere NEAR that amount), what's another $1,000 or two to have a few hundred copies made??? I think you see my point, sonusman. Jags obviously doesn't know about compression and "mastering limiters", so I intended my advice as just a thoughtful, hopefully helpful, suggestion.

On the experience point, you are absolutely right. AMEN!!! No substitute for experience. . .

Jags,

I hope that my advice, despite what others may think, is helpful.

Good luck, and have fun!!!

Brian
 
Thanks everyone, you've all been helpful. I didn't realise that upping the volume would create distortion, (i guess the flashing red indicator should've told me something!!). So I've re-mixed down the tracks making sure that none of the tracks go into the red. For the moment I'm really just looking to put a good sounding demo together and hopefully let whichever record company picks me up to foot the mastering/re-recording in a pro studio bill! ;) I might have a look at the software you mentioned Brian, could be useful, I 'know of' compressors and limiter and have used them a bit on individual tracks, but i'm not 100% sure exactly what the are/how tey work and i've never tried applying them to a whole mix. Thanks for the advice.

Incidentally, roughly how much would it be to have a 5 track 20 minute EP mastered professionally? Give me the range if you want and shock me with the cheapest price no doubt! Oh yeah, and if I sell 10 CD's is that likely to break me even;).

Thanks again.

Jags
 
db-audioware

I agree that the db-audioware mastering limiter works great and minimizes distortion (unless you really really push it). It's no substitute for a Sjoko (how does is feel to be a common noun?), but from what I've seen, er, heard, it's the best inexpensive limiting software.

BTW, the db-audioware dynamics processor should be used primarily for compression. It's the best software compressor I've tried too.
 
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