mixing bass

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rusty K
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Rusty K

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Hello,

I'm a professional bass player but relatively new to PC recording.

Wouldn't you know that I have more trouble getting a good solid bass sound recorded than I do with any other instrument.

I'm from the old (analog) school and I would like to learn to get that solid bass sound that I hear on current CD mixes. That is a bass sound as well as drum kick sound that you feel in your chest but that does not push a lot of air. This is a concept that I don't quite grasp yet but it's one of the big differences, I think, between the old analog days and the new modern digital mixes.

I would appreciate any direction.

Thanks,
Rusty K
 
My first suggestion would be the Bass POD, but since you're an analog guy you probably don't want to go that route.

My second suggestion is compression. I find that really slamming the bass tends to make it sound like you're saying, big and round, but not jumpy or pushing a lot of air. My exact settings vary, but typical is:
ratio: 3:1 - 5:1
threshold: 6-20 dB below the peak level, depending on how compressed you want it
attack: 5-15 ms
release: slow, 200-500 ms +
This should pretty much level the bass, then crank the output to taste.
 
charger,

Thanks man.....

Ok just what is POD? I've seen them and read discussions about them. About all I could gather is that they offer a wide variety of sampled bass sounds....I'm not sure how this relates to my dilema? But maybe there's something I'm missing?

As far as the compression you suggested.....I will try it next time I'm mixing but I have seen many posts concerning the overuse of compression....I guess it's made me gunshy. What about when you get to mastering and step on it again.....?

Thanks again..

Rusty K
 
Rusty K,

A POD is a modeling effect box for different cabs and amps and such. They are awesome. Though modeled and never replace the real thing, you can still get a good sound and its easy going from guitar to Pod to recorder.

A bass POD is just like the guitar one, except its for basses, (obviously), but I have played a few different basses through a bass POD and think they sound just as good as the guitar ones. I played a Musicman through one a few months ago and fell in love. You should check one out!

John
 
RustyK: you can check out the Pod and Bass Pod at www.line6.com. It just makes the tracking of bass that much simpler, allowing you to record both a DI track and a track that sounds like it's gone through an amp+cabinet+microphone at the same time. It includes a bunch of really usable amp/speaker cab simulations, of mostly older, mostly tube bass amps, from Ampeg, Sunn, Eden, SWR, etc. I love it, but then again I'm a guitar player with no budget to buy a big bass amp and neighbors.

On Compression: overall mix compression is a totally different beast from bass compression. But the goal when mixing is to make your mix sound as awesome as possible regardless of what will happen to it later, and part of that is compressing the bass pretty heavily to get it to sit right in the mix. It's nothing to be afraid of. Anyway, it's not that difficult to do several mixes with various levels of bass compression and without any bass compression, and then to compare them. I can *almost* guarantee that a well-compressed bass tone will sound better in a mix than an uncompressed one.

Overall mix compression/limiting/eq, done in the mastering stage, is supposed to be done by experts who enhance the overall sound. Rarely is a mix ruined by competent mastering...
 
Rusty,
as stated a POD is a combo preamp/effects/amp modeler for guitars and they make a bass Pod also...

do yourself a favor though...check out the J-Station.....
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/ex/shop/home/011106151026024004254167328089?pid=480751
it is for guitar and bass and has good acoustic guitar patches....
$149....you can pull bass sounds out of this baby very easy that you wont believe you are getting from a box for 1 1/2 bills......sets very well in the mix......

the key is getting the bass and the kick holding down the low end but not stepping on each other...i usually like the kick around 80-100 hz and the bass from 150 -250 depending on the tune...your milage may very with that...i like to boost a tad on the kick where i want it and cut the bass a tad at the same freq. and then do the same with the bass, boosting where you want it to sit and cutting the kick at tad at that frequency.....
 
also, the J-Station has S/PDIF outs so you can go into your soundcards S/PDIF inputs, straight digital.....
 
Wow...lot's to check out and comprehend!

Gidge.....How you doing? You should take a glance at my latest post in Ntrack forum....nothing important just an update but you are one of those I posted for. Hey I'm gonna check out J-Station for sure...I like the price and you say it stacks up well against the POD?


Charger......appreciate the help man....ok...I know mastering done by a pro is where it's at but I do my own with T-Racks....I love it and even using the presets It always makes my mixes sound better. I have a lot to learn about it but I was just wondering what stepping on the original tracks really hard and then stepping on them again would do? As I've said I try to lay off too much of anything but it's certainly not a problem to do a couple of mixes to see how it fly's! I'll give her a try.

Sondriven.....I will check it out for sure!

Rusty K
 
For bass, it kicks the Pod in the ass....for guitar there are alot of Pod lovers out there, but side by side, I chose the J-Station...if its primarily or completely for bass, J-Station is the key.....bring your bass up to Guitar Center and plug into one and check it out.....
on my way to check out that thread in N-Track forum.....
 
I couldn't agree less. The J-Station's one bass sound doesn't come close to matching the range of tones you can get out of the Bass Pod. And if I was a bass player only, I would buy the Bass Pod, not the Guitar version. I do agree however that you shouild run to your local megastore and do a side-by-side comparison. Just don't run your bass through the Guitar Pod and then give up, I've tried it, and it always feels like it's almost there, but it never quite seems to get there, Bass Pod is the way.
 
One bass sound?

my J-Station models an SWR bass, a Trace Elliot bass amp, an Ampeg SVT and a Fender Bassman for sure...there may be more but thats the 4 I use most.....I think the Bass Pod has 16 amps....what bassist needs 16 amps....most bassists arent intelligent enough to figure out one amp :D

and does it quite well I might add.....imo, better than a bass pod.....has better effects and has S/PDIF......

bass pod $350
j-station $150

but the best thing to do is like i did...sit down in Guitar Center for about 90 minutes going back and forth while the wife gets frustrated and see which one you like......

another thing to check out is a Countryman direct box if you dont have one...does wonders for a recorded bass....

btw, Rusty, what are u recording your bass with now?....
 
Gidge,

I'm a Fender man have been all my life....except for a 10yr stint with G&L. Right now I've been using a Plite active. Cheap guitar but it's lightweight and has made me more money than any bass I've had.

Because it's active I was just going direct into my puter....kind of low level but with volume boosting it seemed to me it was pretty much all there. (Since going digital it seems I'm constantly rolling off low end instead of trying to find it).

Of late because of input from forum people I've been using my SWR 900 with it's direct out to go through before the PC. Of course the level is up but so far it hasn't blown me away with an improved sound. Overall I'd say better but I'm obviously still looking.

I tried my preamp but forget it.....just adds noise (BlueTube).

As far as the eqing question.....so then with bass and kick I should never use low end shelving if I'm trying to find separate space in the mix for each? Just boost in the two freq areas you mentioned? I've heard mixes though where the kick and bass hit you right in the chest and are seemingly indistinguishable (sp?).

Rusty K
 
Id have to say either the Country DI box i mentioned or a box like the J-Station or Bass Pod would help out quite a bit....if it will be used more for bass, Id reach for the Countryman.....
 
Gidge,

I've decided to order the J-Station. Price plus I need help with my acoustic guitar too. I'm going to try it out ....if I don't like it I'll send her back.

Hey I just did a mix using your suggestions for placing kick and bass in the mix. I could really hear the diff. more definition. Now all I need to do is learn how to find a spot for everything. I don't suppose there is a chart or something that would give me a "general" , visual idea of where each instrument commonly sits in the mix as far a frequency is concerned? I think something like that would help a lot and give me a starting place.

Thank,
Rusty K
 
Gidge,

Cool....you have a library of info at your fingertips. I guess I do to but I hadn't scouted it out yet. Thanks I've printed.

I visited musician.com and listened to a couple of the sampled effects of the J-Station. One was called "acoustic with piezo (sp?) pickups.....so that was actually an electric sounding like an acoustic....? Of course I guess an acoustic could sound like an electric as well with some of the other sampled sounds?

Do you know what the S/PDIF connections look like on the J-Statio? I have digital I/O on my card but they look like regular cannon jacks. I just wanted to be sure it wasn't some other kind of multi pin plug.

Rusty
 
the S/PDIF looks like typical RCA plugs....the difference will be the wire...75ohm coaxial cable, like cable tv wire.....

and ok, im braindead, i meant make an electric sound like an acoustic in that last post...how are you recording your acoustic now?.....
 
Gidge,

Me braindead too.....an unusual Friday night off for a change.

Ummm looks like S/PDIF won't work with my card. I guess I'll have to take a closer look down at the Guitar Center.

I record my acoustic through my BlueTube and do some limiting as it's going in. That has helped a lot. Had been using a Marshall 2001 MXL but it craps out on me all the time...I'm thinking about taking it in to be checked out. I just bought a Sennheiser 855E vocal mic for stage, which I love. I've been using it and getting better results and the noise rejection is fabulous in my computer room.

Rusty
 
Hey Rusty...did you check out the sound files on Musicians Friend of the bass POD? You can get a pretty good indication of what it sounds like. I've been pretty impressed with the Bass POD. I don't own one yet, but I'd love to.
 
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