Mixing Bass

[JerryWeinstein]

Lets say you got a decent bass sound and its time to mix. Where would you put the bass in relation to the kick. Should it be the same level, a bit lower, does it depend on the type of music and type of bass sound. Are there general considerations when mixing bass. Should compression be used, if so how much. Should the compression match the compression on the kick.

 

[nessbass]

How loud you mix the bass in comparison to the kick pretty much depends on the style of music you're mixing and the kind of mix you want to approach. You gotta ask yourself how important the both are for that specific song.
Is it a song that's driven by a pulse?
--> Kick louder than the bass
Is the song kind of dominated by the bass line?
--> Bass louder than in above example, probably not louder than the kick.
The function you're looking for here is for the kick to emphasize the attack of the bass, nothing else.
You will have to try to find the right relationship. There are no set rules.

Should compression be used, if so how much.

There are two main reasons for using compression.
1 - there are several notes in the bass line, that stand out level-wise and that need to be tamed.
2 - as an effect.

So listen again to your bass recording and try to hear whether there are level inconsistencies that bug you. Fix them. Does the bass need some more attack or a longer sustain? Use compression. But don't use it just because everyone uses it always on their basses.

Should the compression match the compression on the kick.

I think I don't get that question?

David

 

[mixsit]

... Should the compression match the compression on the kick.

I would say no. They are two separate instruments with thier own 'issues'. The kick/bass dance/trimming thing's a fun one for sure.

Now I have a question for bass mixing that sort of relates...
In my experiences with both DI and mic'd bass tracks, I'm finding that I'm often doing some low-shelf cutting, maybe 3 or 4db, up into the 100-150hz range. Basically trimming the whole low end down to get in the ballpark on what I'm hearing on reference CDs.
(Maybe it's the styles I'm picking, gererally pop rock and blues, not metal..)
Sometime when I think the low end is sloppy, it truns out one or both of those two instruments is booming too much. Trimming tightens them up, but it's a fine line.
Do you guys find you're dumping low end?
Wayne

 

[Jeroleen]

(Jerry W on work computer)

First, I don't usually use compression on bass or for that matter, on many instruments at all. I usually play all the parts on my productions and I tend to play very steady at the same level always. I have allot of control and I use it. In fact, I have tried using compression on bass and drums and for the most part don't like the result.

I do allot of R&B and the bass and drums have to kick and thump away, be in sync and be timed well. I do not like compression or quantizing and find that those things take all the punch and feel out of the mix.

I was curious though it maybe I was setting things wrong but I don't think so. In fact, since I posted this I have gotten confirmation from multi-platinum producers that my approach is the better way. The real reason people don't use this approach that much is because the can't play a decent track and need electronic assistance.

As for the question about the settings of a compressor matching on bass and kick, I was not clear about what was on my mind which is why the question could not be answered. It was specifically regarding attack and release settings.

In general, many of the bass and kick figures are tutti or quasi-tutti where the bass and kick are nearly identical rythmically except of nuances here and there. I was wondering if the use of similar attack and release settings was something used or contemplated by others for additional tightening. Utimately though, they are different instruments with different characteristics and in the end, only your ear can tell.

That is my best tool in the entire studio. It is not the board, computer, sound card, break out box, program, hard synth or soft synth, mic or compressor, reverb or delay, it is my ear and that has always served me well.

So, in the end, I will stop asking lame questions to amuse myself late at night and just LISTEN. It always produces the best result.

 

[Simman]

Re: Re: Mixing Bass

I would say no. They are two separate instruments with thier own 'issues'. The kick/bass dance/trimming thing's a fun one for sure.

Sometime when I think the low end is sloppy, it truns out one or both of those two instruments is booming too much. Trimming tightens them up, but it's a fine line.
Do you guys find you're dumping low end?
Wayne

I have had success using a little gate to "tighten up" the bass but I agree, it is a fine line. You can easily overdue it. However, if compression were going to be used then I’d use a separate compressor on the bass channel inset.

 

[mixsit]

[B
So, in the end, I will stop asking lame questions to amuse myself late at night and just LISTEN. It always produces the best result. [/B]

So what's lame? It's only so difficult because everything becomes so generalized, or it risks missing the mark for being too specific.
I always seem to end up thinking of attack and release in terms of you much wants (needs) to get in, and how fast it gets out. Time and density.

 

[glynb]

Ears?

Whilst I appreciate what far more expereinced people say about just using their ears, that's not really too helpful to a novice. What i mean is it's not hearing that something is wrong with a mix that is the problem, we can ALL listen, it's knowing what to do to FIX the problem that we need to learn!

The good news is that it IS possible to learn how to 'listen' in a way which produces results. Things I 'hear' now I wouldn't have heard 2 years ago, or rather I would have heard that the mix overall doesn't sound good, without knowing what the actual problem was (eg, too much mid on the guitars competing for the same frequencies as the vocal for example - solution: take away some low end from the guitar).

On this bass quaestion I was faced wit just this issue over the weekend. A couple of really low notes repeatedly stuck out like a sore thumb in the mix, the rest of the bass track was at the right level. My solution was to bounce the bass track via compression to a spare track, problem solved. But it is only through visiting boards like this and getting advice and reading threads that I would have had firstly the 'ears' to notice the fault and secondly the knowledge of how to deal with it.

But telling a novice to use their ears doesn't really help in the first instance - it takes time to REALLY listen and notice what's wrong.

 

[acorec]

Lets say you got a decent bass sound and its time to mix. Where would you put the bass in relation to the kick. Should it be the same level, a bit lower, does it depend on the type of music and type of bass sound. Are there general considerations when mixing bass. Should compression be used, if so how much. Should the compression match the compression on the kick.

The rule is, one is a "click" and the other is a "boom"
If the bass drum is sent to the lower freq, then the bass guitar should occupy the mid/low freq. You can have the bass drum occupy the mid/low freqs and have the bass guitar occupy the lower freqs. Thing of each having their own space in the mix. Having them both occupy the same freq space only leads to fighting each other and a muddy mix.