Mixing and -DB

[jaynm26]

Guitar Girl did we scare you off with all the Einstein talk? Sorry if we blabbered you out of the room!!
you have any more questions? (poor girl we proly confused her more than ever...now which is what again )

 

[Mo Facta]

I try to take the minutia with a grain of salt. In mixing it's the BIG PICTURE that counts.

Cheers

 

[Bobbsy]

I try to take the minutia with a grain of salt. In mixing it's the BIG PICTURE that counts.

Cheers

Yeah. Just for fun I once plugged my DAW computer into our 50 inch Plasma. THAT was a big picture! It didn't help my mixing any but it sure looked impressive.

More seriously, there has to be a balance. Absolutely, mixing is about far more than the minutiae--and, if you get bogged down in the technicalities you're not doing it right.

However, like it or not, recording and mixing is a technical operation. Unless you understand the basics like setting up your gain structure, the "big picture" is likely be pretty unpleasant and frustrating. Similarly, learning the minutiae of how your DAW works actually frees you to think about your mix without worrying about how to achieve the sound you want. It's a bit like an artist needing to know how to mix colours and hold the brush before he can paint a masterpiece.

I'm not saying you should need to concentrate on the technical rubbish to mix properly. Far from it. In fact, I think that you should know it well enough that you don't need to think about it.

 

[Bobbsy]

32 Bit Floating is not very well known or talked about but those (like us) who are audiophiles we "PAY ATTENTION TO DETAIL". Im pretty sure bobbsy, farview and my self take the "mixing approach" when it comes to "minute" knowledge of audio details. May not mean a whole lot but all the little bits of knowledge that is applied here and there add up to mean a huge world of difference.

A little may not go a long away but alot can come from very little.

I have to say that, in the circles I move in "audiophile" is considered an insult, usually spelled "audiophool". It's usually more associated with thousand dollar directional mains cables and wooden knobs to improve the sound of your amp than with real technology that can be proven in proper A/B/Blind tests.

Knowledge and snake oil aren't the same thing....

 

[jaynm26]

well the direct definition of audiophile

Wiki
An audiophile is a person with a strong interest in high-quality sound (usually music) reproduction.[1]
Audiophile values may be applied at all stages of music reproduction: the initial audio recording, the production process

 

[Farview]

I have to say that, in the circles I move in "audiophile" is considered an insult, usually spelled "audiophool". It's usually more associated with thousand dollar directional mains cables and wooden knobs to improve the sound of your amp than with real technology that can be proven in proper A/B/Blind tests.

Knowledge and snake oil aren't the same thing....

Same here. The practical definition seems to trump the wiki definition.

 

[Bobbsy]

If you go back to what the word SHOULD mean, it'd just be somebody who likes audio--and that would include me.

Alas, when you say "audiophile" to most people, you end up with crap like THIS COMPANY who will sell you IEC mains leads for several hundred dollars, fuses for about $25 each and offer of service to "burn in" your interconnect cables. It's idiocy like that that makes "audiophile" a naughty word for most professionals.

(As an aside, that company has been forced to withdraw their claims a number of times under UK "truth in advertising" laws, but they keep coming up with new stuff, god bless 'em!)

 

[jaynm26]

I try to take the minutia with a grain of salt. In mixing it's the BIG PICTURE that counts.

Cheers

This approach is fine with me. Its weird Im more of a detail guy but when talking shop or befriending an eng I always like guys like Mo facta for some odd reason maybe cause with the detailed "I know more about 1's & 0's than you" Engineers gets on my nerves more than anything. Facta and others that are my associates go against the grain most of the time I like it keeps me on egde, fresh, re born. When I feel like im settling in to my 70 yr old Eng "It has to be this way, or no way" frame of mind guys like this make music fun and innovative again. I guess what Im saying is we need those "throw the faders up till it sounds good" guys around (sort of the modern eng cowboys) And they need to be heard MORE. You never know you Book thumping Engineers might learn something new, not new by the book but new from creativity and innovation (I mean isnt this what its al about). Most important alot of younger eng (even when they know the fundamentals) have the same approach.

Guys like Facta is why we put a man on the moon. WHO WOULDA THOUGHT!??? (Hey, that big o' damn glowey thing that lights up at night, Yea! LETS GO LAND ON IT! "). We should embrace it all...I mean who else do you know masters their own music in their car through guitar amps?

 

[jonny deep]

If you go back to what the word SHOULD mean, it'd just be somebody who likes audio--and that would include me.

Alas, when you say "audiophile" to most people, you end up with crap like THIS COMPANY who will sell you IEC mains leads for several hundred dollars, fuses for about $25 each and offer of service to "burn in" your interconnect cables. It's idiocy like that that makes "audiophile" a naughty word for most professionals.

(As an aside, that company has been forced to withdraw their claims a number of times under UK "truth in advertising" laws, but they keep coming up with new stuff, god bless 'em!)

I was going to link Russ Andrews myself, but you beat me to it! A guy I work with brings their catalogues in and we have a laugh at the £12,000 directional interconnect cables with wooden dongly bits and ether-spirit channelling. The language they use is pretty funny - it's always stuff like "We believe this £600 HDMI cable produces more vibrant colours". If you look at Testing audiophile claims and myths it talks about lots of situations where these products are shown to be useless. There's a bit describing some blind A/B/X testing where the tester soldered a load of coat hangers together and switched them in as speaker cable and the subjects couldn't tell the difference.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

well the direct definition of audiophile

Wiki
An audiophile is a person with a strong interest in high-quality sound (usually music) reproduction.[1]
Audiophile values may be applied at all stages of music reproduction: the initial audio recording, the production process

The term has taken on a pejorative meaning by association with the sellers of bogus audio improvement products and the gullible fools who by them. Since these people have been using it no self respecting audio professional wants to be associated with it. If you use that word I will imagine someone who spends thousands on special speaker cable that in blind A/B/X testing is indistinguishable from lamp cord or even copper coat hanger.

 

[PRHunt]

The term has taken on a pejorative meaning by association with the sellers of bogus audio improvement products and the gullible fools who by them.

I used to consider myself an audiophile. I grew weary of the real-world audiophile's disdain for objective testing, the smug superiority and the ad hominem attacks. "If you don't hear a difference, then your hearing is deficient", or "your sound system is not sufficiently resolving" (which, by implication, means not expensive enough). Indeed, one could be forgiven for concluding that real-world audiophilia is not about enjoying sound at all, but is more about one-upmanship and belittling others.

Not that the pro audio community is entirely immune to this - I reckon there are a healthy number of "pro-audiophiles" out there as well.

Now I'm just an audio enthusiast who believes that high fidelity sound depends on well established engineering principles. Quality audio equipment for recording and playback will of course cost more than rubbish, but price is not the final arbiter of quality.

Music is meant to be immersing and emotionally engaging. How do you enjoy that when you are obsessed with PRaT?

Paul

 

[Bobbsy]

PRHunt, your excellent post reads with far more clarity and warmth when I use this $300 marker pen to draw a green line around the edge!

 

[PRHunt]

PRHunt, your excellent post reads with far more clarity and warmth when I use this $300 marker pen to draw a green line around the edge!

Thank you Bobbsy, but you should also try it with some Mpingo disks. Much more authority and slam in the bass