mixer to computer?

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guhlenn

guhlenn

Oh REALLY????
hi,

i've been lookin around a bit and noticed a lot of people using and a stand alone digital unit and a computer.
Why? ok for burning cd-r but couldn't I just hook up a mixer to the computer? I'm thinking about the alesis studio 24. could i get 8 (at least) simultaneous recording tracks?

This could be a very dumb question, if so just tell me, i'm gettin used to asking dumb questions.
 
you'd then need an 8 (or 2 or 4 or 12) input soundcard. So really the mixer dosen't go straight to the computer, just to the specific interface. There are more issues of compatibility then just simply going from the mixer to the computer. There are many different routs to take, you needs and budget determines which one.

-jhe
 
you're probably gonna tell me to get a stand alone unit, but i'm still gonna ask:
why do people buy both?
is an apropriate soundcard that expensive.
i've read some of the problems in computer based recording,
is it really that hard?
cause i'm not that good with technics I used to have a full blown midi rack for my guitar worth about $10K but sold for nearly $4K just because i was getting sick of weird hum's and clicks and pops and shit that fucked up my sound..... well basically i'm not a tech.
so computer recording or not?
your opinion please

oh i forgot the most important thing I'll be able to spend $2000

thanx guhlenn
 
It seems to me that if you're not at least somewhat technically inclined you're going to be frustrated doing any kind of digital recording (or analog recording, for that matter).

That said, the all-in-one box is certainly the most approachable -- also the least flexible.

If you can't face learning a lot about PCs and how they work, on top of the basic technology of audio recording then I'd recommend that you avoid PC recording and go for something like a Roalnd VS or get a mixer and an ADAT.

-AlChuck
 
Only $2,000! I'd be recording right now with that much money. Now you can easily record great songs with that budget as long as your computer doesn't suck. I'm sure you've heard it before, 500mHz, 128megs, and 7200RPM hard drive. If I were you I'd buy a Mackie 1604VLZ Pro (not that crappy Alesis with RCA jacks), and the Midiman 10/10 or the Layla 24. The Layla has better converters but it costs more. You can buy either card and the mixer for less than $2,000 and I'm hoping you have a good mic or that's another $300.I know that there are people at this sight that don't like Mackies but they are rich boys so don't listen to them.The new XDR mic preamps sound great especially compared to the Alesis. And yes the expensive sound card is very very important. If you can figure out the wonderful world of midi you can easily figure out computer recording. Anything else I can help you with?
 
I'm no techie and here's what I've done so far:

My computer has a PIII 667, 128 mb Ram, 20 GB. I got an Aardvark Direct Pro (costs about $500), which consists of a soundcard (that you slide into the slot in the PC) and an interface box that plugs into the soundcard. The box has all the inputs and outputs and a preamp with phantom power and it converts whatever the heck it needs to convert into digital. You plug your mic into the box. The Direct Pro also functions as the recording mixer via a virtual mixing board (it comes with the software). I had to get a mic, headphones, studio monitors and mixing software (I got N-track). All of the above EXCEPT the computer cost about $1600. You've really got to focus on everything and be very deliberate, stepwise, meticulous and all that but so far it doesn't seem to me that you need any particular technical or computer background. Of course, we'll see what my MP3's sound like............
 
Ditto what AlChuck said, but I have a couple counterpoints to what atomic... said.

Crappy Alesis with RCA jacks? I don't know what mixer you're talking about, but I have an Alesis Studio 32 and it kicks ass and doesn't have a single set of RCA jacks on it. The mic preamps sound damned good to me too. I understand the Studio 24 is basically the same thing with fewer channels I think. Mackie's are perfectly nice boards though, so either one would be good as long as you make sure you have direct outs for each channel (I know those two Alesis models do).

The other thing is the Layla recommendation. There are obviously people around here having good luck with them, but I had a bad experience with one. I do know what I'm doing with computer hardware, but I could not get that Layla to work to save my life. I returned it and bought a MOTU 1224 (2408 is good also) and I love it. Also, if I remember correctly, to expand the Layla you had to add a PCI card for each unit you added - the MOTU only requires one card for up to three interface units, so you can expand to 24 simultaneous analog inputs plus various midi/optical/etc without adding another card.

I think that last statement is true - if you can figure out all that midi stuff you shouldn't have that much trouble with digital recording, PC or standalone.

As for the original question, I have no idea why you would want to buy both a standalone digital recorder and a PC recording rig, unless you have loads of money to burn or could really use the portability of a standalone but do most mixing on the PC.
 
I'm really bad in asking direct simple questions but i do believe I've gotten a lot further.
I'm no tech but am willing to learn and hey, a stand alone unit isn't that simple to record on either.
What i meant was 1) what do i need considering hardware
so i NEED a good card
heavy computer
mixer-> do i need it or not? i still don't get that part, i can mix on the computer cant I? or is it just alot easier to use?
then for monitoring-> monitors AND amp?

but mostly i'm conserned about some post i read. Some guy asked some thing about having a delay and wasn't able to find it...
shit like that you know? I would really freak out if i'd spend 2K on equipment and then i would have that kind of problems.

Tell me something: when you use the computer to record have you had problems conserning not sound or something but things like driver conflicts weird things like hum'sor pop's

hell i don't know.
I figured the midi out by the way and yes it IS hell and couldn't stand to perform live with. There would be always something wrong with it causing it to crack or hum or whatever and i wouldn't know were to look. Now that's what I'm afraid for...

it does seem the less expensive option...

Tell me what you think...
greetz guhlenn
 
Ok, direct answers to direct questions :).

Hardware.

1)You'll need a good computer with as much CPU, memory and hard drive as you can afford.

2)You'll need a multi-channel line input device to get the audio into the computer. I recommend the MOTU 1224 or 2408 core kit which will give you a PCI card and an 8-in 8-out analog input device that also has some digital connections (depending on which model you go for). You can add up to two more 2408 or 1224 devices that connect to the same PCI card. There are other good devices, just search around on these forums.

3) You'll need some kind of mic preamp to create line signals to send to the MOTU (or other) input device. That's where the mixer comes in. I like using a full mixer for the versatility, but you could use just dedicated mic preamps. If you go for a mixer you'll want to make sure it has direct line outs for each channel, which will plug into the input device to the computer. I use an Alesis Studio 32.

4) If you get powered monitors you won't need an amp.

If you get a good, high quality input device you shouldn't have any pops or clicks or driver conflicts. The installation of my MOTU 1224 went without a hitch and it's performed flawlessly for months now. If you don't put any other odd hardware in the machine there shouldn't be a problem.

I think the delay you mentioned is going to be there no matter what type of hardware you buy. In the case of the MOTU devices you can turn down the buffer setting and eliminate the delay, but you're better off adjusting in software. All the multitrack recording software I've used so far allows you to put in a "latency" or delay setting that compensates for the delay caused by the hardware buffer. The hardware buffer is there for a good reason, so it's best (I think) to take care of it that way. It may be a pain in the ass to set up the first time (figuring out the amount of delay and adjusting to eliminate it), but I think the one-time inconvenience is worth it.

Hope that helps.
 
I want to repeat my Aardvark Direct Pro recommendation. It has the multi-channel line input device, mixer and preamp described by Diragor (items 2 and 3 of his last post), ALL IN ONE. And you can plug your powered studio monitors into it as well. Also, the Direct Pro completely eliminates the delay problem. (Aardvark has a website that explains all of this; I can't seem to find the address so you should do a search. You should also be able to find some on line reviews. You should also do a search here.)

I think the Aardvark Direct Pro has a couple direct competitors like the Echo Mona.

I'm not saying it's a panacea but it has certainly streamlined my process.......

Good luck (and good luck on those English lessons too)....
 
direct pro

I own the Direct Pro and I reccomend it. Very clear sound. Only drawback is the interface is kind of hard to use.

lD
 
I assume you guys have the Direct Pro 24/96, since that was the only model shipping before this month according to the Aardvark website. Looks like a nice unit, but it only has 4 inputs and according to their website it's not expandable at all (see the FAQ). The Q32 looks very nice with 8 XRL and 16 1/4" inputs (they don't specifically say if they can all be used simultaneously), but it's not shipping yet and I'm gonna take a stab in the dark that it'll use a PCI card interface similar to their other products (ie. not expandable).

A memory buffer is inevitable in gear that supports 8+ simultaneous inputs and outputs (with current technology), so the delay is the price you pay for having more than four channels. The software makes up for it, as I said. So it looks like the choices are 1) deal with the delay, or 2)have limited channels to work with. Or, I guess, buy a Pro Tools rig where the hardware and software are all tied together to work flawlessly right out of the box (it better, for what they charge).
 
yeah i visited the aardvark website, by the way they can be expanded, and i must say it's impressive for what they cost. The q32 even has a no-delay option... or so they say.
the point is that i have no comparison since there is no studio hardware shop in my vicinity. SO please tell me your experience...
About that protools system, i heard they have got an affordable system now protools LE or something would that be anything?
The MOTU is too expensive i think, though maybe second-hand or something thewy might be affordable...
thanx and keep them opinions coming, it helps

greetz guhlenn
 
Where did you see something about the Aardvark units being expandable? I couldn't find anything about it on the web site. Also, if they're only expandable by adding another PCI card for each device, then that sucks (you'll run out of IRQs).
 
I think the "no-delay option" you mention is marketingspeak for a headphone or stereo output on the box itself that lets you monitor the signals going into the converters before it gets into the computer. A useful thing but nothing magic like they seem to imply. All computer recording systems have some delay, usually called latency. In fact, dpending on how strict about it you want to be about definitions, all electronic circuits have some latency -- it's often just so short that it cannot be perceived...
 
i haven't checked it but i thought i saw it on the website, though i'm now thinking that could be the AARK 24. i'll check. the Q32 looks REALLY nice ...
But i'm thinking about just getting a mixer and a nonpre card, cause they can purchased second-hand (maybe then i can buy some decent monitors too;-)
hell, for now i'm gonna try hooking a live mixer to a soundblaster 16 in a 486-> see how desperate i am?
anyone, help me out here
tell me your set-up and if it works please?

greetz guhlenn
 
checked it on the site of aardvark and there expandable but only up to 4 and you'll have to buy another complete unit.

guhlenn
 
The MOTU 2408 system is not all that expensive, all things considered. I noticed in another thread that somebody said that Aardvark Direct Pro unit is $600. You need two of them to get 8 channels of input, which I would consider a bare minimum for serious recording, so there's $1200. Musician's Friend has the 2408 MkII core system for $900. I got a used Alesis Studio 32 for $600, and I'm sure you can find a similar deal on a Mackie or Alesis mixer with direct outs for each channel, so we're talking around $1500 total cost for a MOTU + mixer solution. That's with only 1 PCI card in your system to contend with, and you can add two more 2408 modules for about $600 a piece (I know they're much less expensive than the core kit, not sure about exact price). For the increased versatility and expandability I think it's worth the price premium. And judging by the price of the 4-channel Direct Pro units, I'm sure the Q32 will be at least as much as the MOTU 2408. Btw, the MOTU 2408/1224 has the same "no latency" direct monitoring thingie that Aadrvark is probably talking about - it doesn't help much when you need to synch to what's already recorded.

Just giving you some food for thought, good luck finding what's right for you. My advice is: think ahead as much as possible. You'll *always* want more than you've got, whether it's inputs, outputs, effects, mics, whatever, so don't box yourself in if you can help it.
 
Again, I'm an engineering novice, but this is what I understand about the Direct Pro 24/96, which I have and is working great so far.

$600 is list, I think. I believe that mine cost $459 at http://www.doctoraudio.com. I also noticed a couple weeks ago that zzounds was selling some returned units for even less, but I don't know if they are still available.

Certainly if you want to record a band live, the four inputs are not enough. I'm just recording myself. Also, there are 6 additional "virtual" channels for recording drums, etc. simultaneous with the 4 actual inputs.

It appears to eliminate the latency completely. There is no delay. If there is an imperceptible delay, that would not seem to matter. Also, it's not just a monitoring issue. It synchs perfectly to what is already recorded. (Don't ask me to explain why it works.)

By the way, I'm using N-track, which seems to have everything one could dream of for less than 100 bucks.

Have fun!
 
hi,

now i'm thinking alright ;-)

whats the difference between the motu 2408 and that 12something thingie? cuz i know the price is different( i pay attention to the wrong details...:-)

i just mailed to the distributor to give me the estimated price for the q32. i'll post it here when i get it.

I'll go and check out motu (once again)

thanks
guhlenn
 
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