Mixer Recommendations - Flexible Routing?

S

sleepnotwork

New member
So, this is probably a total pipe dream. I've got a Yamaha MG10, which I'm finding doesn't have quite the flexibility I need in terms of signal routing - specifically, it's not easy to create a monitor mix (to see the entire sorry tale, read this thread: https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=120705). It seems everyone around here is up on the MG series, and it's been good to me so far, but mine's still under exchange time and I'm thinking that if I can't figure out how to get a good monitor mix out of my sound card, I'll need to switch to something else.

A friend of mine mentioned seeing a Mackie a while back that had switches on each channel to allow channels to be grouped into 2 (or 3?) entirely separate busses which could be routed to stereo outputs. This sounds like what I need. Is there anything with a similar ability in the MG10's general price range (under $200)? Thanks for any advice.
 
Having read that thread I'm still not sure what you want to do. You mention your sound card, but changing your mixer won't help that. I gather you are trying to do to different things:

1) headphone mixes during tracking, with playback coming from soundcard & recording inputs via mixer

2) mixdown with soundcard output to monitors

without moving any wires (or simply turning off the monitors). Since your mixer only has one? stereo bus and one? aux send, that's kind of tough but not impossible--you just don't get a stereo headphone mix.

I'd use the aux send for headphone monitoring, routed to a headphone amp (if your mixer headphone out is assignable, you wouldn't need that, but I'm guessing it's main mix only). That will only be a mono mix, but for tracking that doesn't matter. The stereo in from the soundcard is routed to aux on your board as well as any of the incoming channels you want to monitor.

The stereo in from the soundcard also is routed out the main mix to your monitors.

You'll need a headphone amp, but only a cheap one. I had a Rolls unit that was like $40 a few years ago that did the trick.

On the other thread the advice seemed to be the opposite, monitors through aux 1 and headphone through main mix. That doesn't make sense to me. aux sends are designed to be mono, as effects units have mono in & stereo return, and stage monitors are mono, which are the two main uses for aux sends.
 
Chip, thanks for the link, that sounds like exactly what I need . . . couldn't find any prices but I'll poke around some more. Hilarious, it just seems ridiculous to me to spend extra money on a headphone amp to amplify a mono signal. How much would I have to spend to get a mixer with an assignable headphone out?

Edit: Wow, MSRP for the Compact 4 is only $149.99 - plus it has an (apparently) preamped turntable input? This could seriously clean up my setup. It doesn't have quite as many inputs as I'd really like , but you can't have everything, I guess.

Here's some good info:
http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=22275&Category=Mixers

And the company site:
http://www.soundcraft.com/product_sheet.asp?product_id=121

There's apparently a review in a mag out this month -
http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/sh...542#post1100542

Looks like it could be the answer to my question. Thanks Chip!
 
Last edited:
Well, the headphone amp has multiple outs. If it's just you and nobody else, I think I could live with spending no money and just turning off the monitors during tracking. But if you're gonna have friends over for tracking, you need multiple headphones, so a small headphone amp is in your future.

The Soundcraft does look interesting, but it's very purpose-built for a stereo studio (vs. for example live use). I can't fully understand the Soundcraft routing from the website. It has a second headphone out which is nice, but other than that the Yamaha you have can essentially do the same things, and is more standard in terms of how mixer routing usually works. Doesn't your Yamaha have more mic inputs than the little Soundcraft?
 
Maybe I'm missing something. It looks like the Yama has a headphone out and a mix bus feeding it (can't tell for sure -the frikin' site pdf has pictures too bloody blurry to blow up and no goddamm flow diagrams! GET A CLUE YAMA! ... :eek:
How did you end up on the mono aux?
Wayne
 
Ok, chill out. You're getting confused. Here's the deal:

If you're only recording in stereo then all you need is a mixer with 4 busses, not 2. For example. You could get a Behringer UB1204 or Yamaha 12/4 (surely I don't need to tell you which one is better) and plug the Main Outs into your sound card. Then choose a stereo pair channel and send them to the Alt 3-4/Submix/Group 3-4 whatever busses. Then you can plug your headphones in, and choose to listen to the 3/4 mix (i.e. everything coming out of your computer). You can also use the 3/4 outputs to feed your monitors.

You could do this 'better' with a headphone amp, but it'd only be better if you need:
1) More sets of headphones
2) More simultaneous recording inputs ... but you don't have them now, so maybe you don't need them?
 
Let me try to clarify my current setup -

First off, I'm doing exclusively direct ins, from hardware synths/samplers, so I don't have to worry about feedback from the monitors. I have my DAW Out routed through a stereo channel on the Yamaha. The obvious problem with this, what I'm working on trying to fix by either switching mixers or just figuring this one out better, is that I have to turn this signal all the way down so that it doesn't re-record on new tracks when I'm overdubbing. The obvious way, then, to monitor this signal for overdubbing is to send it to the pre-fader out. As far as I can tell (and as seconded by another MG user in the previous thread) the headphone out is non-assignable, it can only get the main mix, so I have to plug the 'phones directly into the aux out. I'm sure there's something I'm just misunderstanding here routing-wise.

I'm realizing the Souncraft 4 has way too few ins for me - I'm already using almost all of the Yamaha's 10. Just have to wait a while, I guess.

Thanks noisedude, that makes total sense. Although to my embarrassment I really have no idea whether a behringer or yamaha would be better.

I'm really starting to feel like a fucking moron for not getting a slightly more expensive soundcard with some more built-in I/O options.
 
sleepnotwork said:
Let me try to clarify my current setup -

First off, I'm doing exclusively direct ins, from hardware synths/samplers, so I don't have to worry about feedback from the monitors. I have my DAW Out routed through a stereo channel on the Yamaha. The obvious problem with this, what I'm working on trying to fix by either switching mixers or just figuring this one out better, is that I have to turn this signal all the way down so that it doesn't re-record on new tracks when I'm overdubbing.
Click to expand...

Perhaps a summary of your mixer capabilities would help:

- Main mix
- one pre-fader aux send
- one post-fader aux send
- headphone out assigned to main mix
- channel inserts

Now, I recall your soundcard has two ins and two outs. So if you are using more than two input channels simultaneously on your mixer, you need to create a submix to send to the soundcard's two ins.

Why not use the aux sends for that? Then route the soundcard outs to the main mix, you get the cue tracks in the main mix, along with the input channels if desired (depending on whether or not you use the pre or post fader aux).

If you are only using two input channels, just use the channel inserts to send the signal straight off the channel preamps.

Yeah, it's nicer to have a bigger mixer (the Y not B) with more aux sends that are pre- or post-fader selectable, but you can work it as described above, and this also has the benefit of not having to spend any money.
 
Sleep,

Basically, what he is saying is this:

Run one of your synths into channel 1 (either directly into the line input, or via passive DI box and XLR cable). Do the same with another synth into channel 2.

Next, plug one of the pre-fader aux sends into input 1 on your interface. Plug another pre-fader aux send into input 2. Its better to use pre-fader sends because you will be using the fader to set up the monitoring level. You can use a post-fader send, but you'll have to set the desired monitor level, and then set the aux send's level according to that, keeping in mind that if you adjust the fader, you will have to compensate by adjusting the aux send level.

You will want to adjust the appropriate aux send level for each of the channels to get a desirable recording level on your interface. For example, adjust the level of Pre-Fader 1 on channel 1, and Pre-Fader 2 on channel 2. Remember that if you bring up Pre-Fader 2 on channel 1, it will send that channel to both inputs, and you won't achieve total separation of channels.

Next, route the two mono outputs (or one stereo output?) of the interface into one of the stereo channels on the mixer. This will be to monitor pre-existing tracks that are being played back.

Hook your monitors up to the mixer's main outputs, and set the master faders at Unity Gain (0 dB, where they are neither boosting nor attenuating the signal).

Play your existing tracks back, and find a good level for them by adjusting their volume level (the stereo channel) on the mixer.

While the playback tracks are playing, play your synths, one at a time, and adjust their corresponding channel faders until you have a desirable balance between each of the synths and the playback. This is totally a matter of taste...some people like to hear more of a particular track than others do.

Now, because you set the channel levels, the recording levels will be independent of the channel fader levels (the ones you used to set your tracking mix).

This should allow you to overdub your synths to other tracks while monitoring over monitors and not inserting the preexisting tracks into the new tracks being recorded.

I hope this helps.
 
Adam, thanks for the help (thanks everyone for the help), but I only have one (mono) pre-fader send. So I don't think it'll work. I'm gonna see what I can figure out tomorrow night.

Thanks again for all the help guys, I apologize for not being more clear on what I'm working with.
 
noisedude said:
...If you're only recording in stereo then all you need is a mixer with 4 busses, not 2. For example. You could get a Behringer UB1204 or Yamaha 12/4 (surely I don't need to tell you which one is better) and plug the Main Outs into your sound card. Then choose a stereo pair channel and send them to the Alt 3-4/Submix/Group 3-4 whatever busses. Then you can plug your headphones in, and choose to listen to the 3/4 mix (i.e. everything coming out of your computer). You can also use the 3/4 outputs to feed your monitors.
Click to expand...

Would this mean that anything assigned to 1/2 (the live tracks being recorded) would not be available in the headphones? (I'm thinking Mackie Alt-3/4 style here.)
Wayne
 
sleepnotwork said:
Adam, thanks for the help (thanks everyone for the help), but I only have one (mono) pre-fader send. So I don't think it'll work. I'm gonna see what I can figure out tomorrow night.

Thanks again for all the help guys, I apologize for not being more clear on what I'm working with.
Click to expand...

If thats the case, just use the one pre-fader send as I described, and use a post-fader send for the other. Just set the monitoring level using the channel's fader before you set the aux out level, and don't adjust the channel's fader unless you adjust the aux send to compensate. It will work, just take a little longer to set up, thats all.
 
mixsit said:
Would this mean that anything assigned to 1/2 (the live tracks being recorded) would not be available in the headphones? (I'm thinking Mackie Alt-3/4 style here.)
Wayne
Click to expand...
Not sure. In a Behringer you can select anything (they all have their own individual switches) but I have noticed in the Yamaha MG16/6FX that you might have to choose between 1/2 and 3/4. Hmmm.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top