Mixer Question - Yamaha MG 16/4..Reverse Phase Inserts?

B

BobOC

New member
Hello folks...

I really need clarification on something, so I hope you all can help.

Besides doing home recording, I play 3-4 gigs a year with a pop/rock band, and with a bluegrass band. For the past two years, I've been using a Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro mixer for home recording (using the four insert outs into my Akai DPS16). In addition, I've taped some live gigs, again using the inserts as direct feeds into the Akai (for four channels, anyway).

Today, I ordered the Yamaha MG 16/4...I've read very good things about it here. The reason for the new mixer is that I was tired of working around the limitation of having only four insert outs on the Mackie...

My concern...in the manual (which I downloaded from MusiciansFriend.com), it states the following:

"The signal output from the Insert I/O jack is reverse-phased. This will not be a problem if connecting the jack to an effecter. if using the jack to output to an external device, however, please be aware of possible phase conflicts with other signals."

So, here are my questions....

If I'm recording my band at home, on 8 simultaneous tracks, and I'm employing the "one-click" method with the cables...will I get a nice, clean sound on each track? Will it be pre-fader? (someone wrote on another thread that the Yamahas are different in this respect).

Another question...if I'm recording a live gig, and using the same method as above, where will the phase problems occur? Let's keep it simple for now and say that I'm only using 8 tracks for both the recording and the live mix (bass, 2 guitars, three vocal mics, two drum mics).

Everything always worked fine with the Mackie, but this "reverse-phase" thing has got me rattled! I know that this has come up before (someone else even posted the same quote from the Yamaha manual), but if I could get a detailed, yet simple, answer, I would be very grateful. Sorry for the length of the post!!!

- Bob.
 
I have an MG12. Basically, you can either record with the signals from the group and main outs, OR you can take the signals from the inserts. If you use them together, the inserts will be out of phase with the group / main outputs.

I ruined a live recording because I did not read the manual, and it happened to me.
 
Thanks for posting, Leddy. I had seen your earlier post on this subject. I'm curious....did your recording have more than eight tracks? I can't seem to figure out how the eight insert signals going into my Akai would be screwed up in a live gig situation if I merely have a stereo signal going out to two PA speakers as well.

Also, in a home recording situation, the eight I/O's going at once will be ok?

And one last question! I'm assuming that the Yamaha MD I/O's are somehow fundamentally different than the Mackie 1202 I/O's. Is this correct?

thanks again...
 
I use a Tascam 788 which allows 6 at once.

I don't know if using the inserts for recording and sending the mains to the PA will work or not. I would guess it would be fine, I don't know for sure though. Certainly do not mix the inserts and mains (or groups) in the direct feed to the recorder. I think that's where you'll have problems.

I have a Mackie, and I believe that it is not set up the same way. Hopefully someone else will chime in and verify what I've said or clear it up if I made a mistake.
 
You cannot simply reverse the phase of an unbalanced connection... you will just be shorting the signal to ground.

However, if you have a balanced input on your recorder, you can make a cable that is wired as following:
connect the + (of the unbal signal) to pin 3 (bal. input), and the ground (of the unbal signal) to pin 2 (bal input)

that would effectively reverse the phase.
 
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