Mixer > Computer > Monitoring? I am all screwed up...

[scottboyher]

I thought I had it all figured out but I guess not. I just bought a new Yamaha 16 channel mixer and am using my computer to record. 16 channel 4 bus.

SOOOOOOOO!

So I go out to the computer on group 1 and 2 (stereo). So everything that needs to be recorded is sent to the soundcard via Group 1 and 2.

Then I use the soundcard stereo output to go to a stereo input # 12/16 on the mixer. This is so I can monitor the music while I record other tracks. This input is NOT sent to Group 1 and 2 but only to the stereo (main) out.

Questions:

1. Should I be coming from the soundcard out to the TAPE IN on the mixer? Why?

2. I would like to use some effects on the vocals while recording (just to set the mood for the singer) but I don't want the effects to record (I want the singnal being sent out on group 1 and 2 to be dry). How do I do that?

I can add some reverb via the effects loop but the dry vocals are coming back in on track 12/16 when I monitor the music... They kind of over-ride the effected vocals that I want the singer to hear.

I guess what I am asking is how do I monitor the tracks that have been recorded (monitor them at the mixer) without having the vocals that are being recorded at the time being sent back to the mixer?

3. Am I hearing the vocals twice? Once going out of the mixer and once coming back in?

4. Also, why doesn't the reverb get recorded? I still don't know why. Does the aux returns only effect what is going out the Main Output of the mixer and not what is going through Group 1 and 2 (bus or whatever)?

5. I am getting a crazy kind of feed back when I try to use the Aux's. Shouldn't I be able to almost saturate the inputs with reverb without getting a feedback in the headphones? Or have I hooked that up wrong? I mean the effect on the vocal when using the aux is very faint.


Here is the mixer http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--YAMMG164+

The manual is in PDF out there somewhere.



I know this is asking alot but I almost burned down my studio lastnight in frustration! If anyone has experience with this mixer or one like it please help.. I don't even know if any of this makes sense.. I should have posted this in the Newbie forum...

Thanks!

 

[AlexW]

Here's what I do with a Soundcraft Spirit M12 mixer but you should be able to do something similar.

1. Take your soundcard out into a stereo input on your mixer like you're doing.

2. On the channels you want to record, use the channel direct outs (or first click on the channel inserts if you don't have direct outs) to your soundcard inputs. Mute the outputs on these channels in your DAW to avoid having them sent back out to your mixer.

3. Use your main ouput bus from your mixer for monitoring, where you can blend both the sound coming from your computer via the stereo input and the tracks you're recording, using the faders for each.

4. If you want to add reverb for monitoring only, use an auxilliary send on the channel to an auxilliary output channel. Route this output to the input of your reverb. Take the reverb output back to a separate line input channel on your mixer. Adjust the auxiliary pots on your recording channels to the amount of signal you want to the reverb. The fader on the line in will then adjust the amount of reverb you hear in your monitoring mix.

I'm guessing you're getting feedback now because everything is cycling around a back through your main output bus.

Hope it makes sense.

 

[scottboyher]

Well that brings up some things that I left out..

My soundcard is a cheap 16bit one. Stereo in and a Stereo out and Mic in (not is use).

The mixer doesn't have direct outs for each channel unless you mean the inserts? If that is what you mean then I can't do that cause I have outboard compressors using the inserts.

If I route the reverb that way wouldn't it record it?

 

[AlexW]

Yeah, you'd have to use your inserts, putting the cable in to the first click. You might be able to go through your compressor on the way in or out.

If you route the reverb the way I've described (using an auxiliary output into the reverb and going back into the line in on a different channel), it won't be recorded. The recorded tracks will be dry coming directly out of your channel inserts.

 

[scottboyher]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.. Thanks Alex I think I got it! I have been doing this for 15 years and I am still a Newbie...

 

[Giganova]

Hey Scott --

I'm in the same situation as you are right now: just bought an Allen & Heath 16-ch mixer and wonder how I should hook it up.

You can either use the direct outs of the mixer (which would be the better solution), or you can use the stereo output of the mixer. The direct outs will clearly give you a better signal because you bypass most of the crappy mixer electronics. If you want to add reverb you should use the insert points.

Instead of routing the output of your DAW back to channels 15/16 I suggest to use the tape return. That'll avoid that you record a track twice if you play back at the same time.

Cheers

 

[mshilarious]

If your mixer has a subgroup and your soundcard just has a stereo in, you don't need to use your inserts as direct sends (unless you want to). Use the subgroup out to your soundcard, and the main L-R mix to your headphones/monitors. Make sure the stereo effects return is routed to the main mix and not the subgroup and also not back into the aux channel that you are using as the effects send!

 

[mshilarious]

Hey Scott --

I'm in the same situation as you are right now: just bought an Allen & Heath 16-ch mixer and wonder how I should hook it up.

I've got that too, nice isn't it?

You can either use the direct outs of the mixer (which would be the better solution), or you can use the stereo output of the mixer. The direct outs will clearly give you a better signal because you bypass most of the crappy mixer electronics.

Although if you want to record a submix of more than two mics, you gotta use the subgroup.

If you want to add reverb you should use the insert points.

Reverb is usually patched via an aux send, that way you can send a mix of all channels, post fader, to the effects unit.

 

[AlexW]

Yep, and putting the reverb on the channel insert would add reverb to the recorded track. He wants to monitor with reverb during tracking but not print the track with reverb.

 

[scottboyher]

If your mixer has a subgroup and your soundcard just has a stereo in, you don't need to use your inserts as direct sends (unless you want to). Use the subgroup out to your soundcard, and the main L-R mix to your headphones/monitors. Make sure the stereo effects return is routed to the main mix and not the subgroup and also not back into the aux channel that you are using as the effects send!

Wish you would have been around lastnight! LOL That is it... I let my frustration beat me....


Thanks everyone!

 

[scottboyher]

3. Am I hearing the vocals twice? Once going out of the mixer and once coming back in...

Duuu.. Mute the line in on the output mixer in windows..

 

[Giganova]

I've got that too, nice isn't it?

Yes -- sweeeeeet mixer! Great sounding EQs and surprisingly clean pres.

Mind asking you -- the expert -- coupla questions?

What do you use for the output of your sound card? I use channles 15/16 right now, but I'm not sure if I should use the ST1 or ST2 inputs instead. Also, right now I use the direct outs of ch 1-8 into my 8-ch ADAT interface into my RME lightpipe card. Should I use the stereo outs (then I could record all 16 channels)? Would i record a channel twice if I'd use the stereo out? (the mixer doesn't have subgroups, which would be neat). Alternatively, I consider using direct outs on ch 1-6 right straight into the ADAT, and the stereo output into ch 7+8 of the ADAT. That would give me all 16 channels, and I still had 6 channels of direct outs, which should give a cleaner signal. Seems to me that would give me more options. Any thoughts on this?

Sorry about these basic questions, but as I said before, I just got this mixer and it still confuses the hell out of me (before I had a digital mixer which I found actually easier to use because of the endless routing options).

Thanks!

 

[mshilarious]

What do you use for the output of your sound card?

I've got mine strapped to an HD24, it's part of my mobile rig. So I use the direct outs to 16 tracks of the HD24, and I use 8 returns from the HD24 to the mixer. I have to pick and choose which channels are set as ins and outs; typically that's 8 in and 8 out for recording, and for live shows/recording it's 16 in since I don't need playback for a live show

I use channles 15/16 right now, but I'm not sure if I should use the ST1 or ST2 inputs instead.

Do you have v2 or v3? I'm assuming you have v3.

Depends on how much flexibility you need, and whether you use the onboard effects. If you use the effects, ST1 is your effects return, so you only have ST2 available. ST2 can only be routed to the main mix, which isn't that helpful.

So if you don't use the effects, then I'd use ST1. If you do, I'd use 15/16.

Also, right now I use the direct outs of ch 1-8 into my 8-ch ADAT interface into my RME lightpipe card. Should I use the stereo outs (then I could record all 16 channels)? Would i record a channel twice if I'd use the stereo out?

Yes, because the direct outs are postfader. However that can be changed with internal jumpers, or you can use aux sends for the stereo out.

Alternatively, I consider using direct outs on ch 1-6 right straight into the ADAT, and the stereo output into ch 7+8 of the ADAT. That would give me all 16 channels, and I still had 6 channels of direct outs, which should give a cleaner signal. Seems to me that would give me more options. Any thoughts on this?

I like the 6 direct/2 stereo mix approach. There are a lot of different options for routing, but this is what I'd do:

Hook your headphone amp to aux 1/2 out. Hook your monitors to A/B out (set to local monitor), which lets you select their source.

Now, as I said the direct outs are factory-set to post fader, you need to move to the internal jumpers to change the direct outs to prefader. There are instructions for this in the manual.

With that setup, you have faders down and aux 1/2 up on all direct mic channels. On your stereo mix mic channels, you have faders and aux 1/2 up. On your soundcard return channel (15/16 or ST1), you have faders (or L-R knob) down, and aux 1/2 up. If you are using effects, make sure the L-R knob on ST1 is down, and aux 1/2 is up. You don't want to record the MixWiz's effects

If you need extra headphone mixes, you can use aux 3/4. You also have aux 6 available if you aren't using the dual effects. Aux 5 is the single effects send.

(If you don't have a handy switch to kill your monitors, you can switch the local monitor to an unused aux channel. That will kill the onboard headphone jack though.)

Or . . .

if you prefer to avoid moving the internal jumpers, then use the main mix as your monitor channel, and use aux 1/2 as your stereo output to your soundcard. It's a bit of a pain creating a stereo mix on aux channels, but it can be done. You set aux 1/2 both at +0dB for center, and cut aux 1 for right, and cut aux 2 for left. To reduce overall level, cut both

Yeah, it's confusing

 

[Giganova]

That was very helpful! Thanks a ton, I'll check it out!