D
Devilfire
New member
Does Anyone Use Professional/Consumer MD Equipment In There Recording Setup ?
T
The Green Hornet
New member
Yo fireproof Devil:
The MD8 isn't up to "professional" quality. It is a good unit. It is a unit that one can record with almost right out of the box. But, its sound quality doesn't compare with 16 bit.
I have an MD8 still plugged in my studio; haven't used it since I got into the Yamaha 2816. However, I'm not saying that I would not use it for stuff that doesn't need to be up to the professional level.
I like the MD8; it was nice to me. I felt I did some nice stuff with that unit by tweaking the levels and having some experience with several units prior to the MD8.
So, if you like the unit, you will do some good stuff with it. Once you get into a 16/24 bit box, you will not turn on your MD8 very often.
Green Hornet
The MD8 isn't up to "professional" quality. It is a good unit. It is a unit that one can record with almost right out of the box. But, its sound quality doesn't compare with 16 bit.
I have an MD8 still plugged in my studio; haven't used it since I got into the Yamaha 2816. However, I'm not saying that I would not use it for stuff that doesn't need to be up to the professional level.
I like the MD8; it was nice to me. I felt I did some nice stuff with that unit by tweaking the levels and having some experience with several units prior to the MD8.
So, if you like the unit, you will do some good stuff with it. Once you get into a 16/24 bit box, you will not turn on your MD8 very often.
Green Hornet
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Dev,
I've got two MD recorders, but actually only one in the studio. The second one's in the front room. I've done a lot of proof mixes to MD, and I've used it sparingly from time to time. I used to use it a lot more, before I got an actual CD player in my car. Before, I'd always record MD's of my mixes to take along w/me on the road, by using my portable MD-walkman and a car/cassette adapter.
Now, since I've gotten an actual CD player in the car, I usually just burn CDs and take them in the car.
I still like MD, as much as I ever did. I think it's a good format, that sounds great. I have the Sony JE-510 and JE-320.
PS, I just got a used Tascam 564, MD Portastudio, which I think is awesome! It uses Minidisc Data discs for 4-track, but still is compatible with 'normal' stereo MD's.
Also, I have tons of MD stocked up, of the older 74 minute discs and the newer 80 minute discs.
MD. I still use it, and I still like it. The data compression is not an issue to me.
There's another MD user, named 'chessparov', and maybe he'll pick up on this thread.
>Yo, hi to the G/H! Blow that Green Horn! Anyway, hows the 2816 projects turning out?
I've got two MD recorders, but actually only one in the studio. The second one's in the front room. I've done a lot of proof mixes to MD, and I've used it sparingly from time to time. I used to use it a lot more, before I got an actual CD player in my car. Before, I'd always record MD's of my mixes to take along w/me on the road, by using my portable MD-walkman and a car/cassette adapter.
Now, since I've gotten an actual CD player in the car, I usually just burn CDs and take them in the car.
I still like MD, as much as I ever did. I think it's a good format, that sounds great. I have the Sony JE-510 and JE-320.
PS, I just got a used Tascam 564, MD Portastudio, which I think is awesome! It uses Minidisc Data discs for 4-track, but still is compatible with 'normal' stereo MD's.
Also, I have tons of MD stocked up, of the older 74 minute discs and the newer 80 minute discs.
MD. I still use it, and I still like it. The data compression is not an issue to me.
There's another MD user, named 'chessparov', and maybe he'll pick up on this thread.
>Yo, hi to the G/H! Blow that Green Horn! Anyway, hows the 2816 projects turning out?
C
chessparov
New member
Right on Dave! Ditto your comments.
Some "pros" use minidisc recorders for live recording, or for
quick mixes/editing. The Sony 24 bit MD two track recorder I
use has a signal to noise ratio of 92db, and any artifacts from
ATRAC type R coding are less than the dbx noise reduction
on my Tascam 244-and the 244 is very quiet!
A smart way to get a 2 track is to get one of the walkman type
recorder/players. Then you can use it to record, and then listen to
it later anywhere.
Chris
Some "pros" use minidisc recorders for live recording, or for
quick mixes/editing. The Sony 24 bit MD two track recorder I
use has a signal to noise ratio of 92db, and any artifacts from
ATRAC type R coding are less than the dbx noise reduction
on my Tascam 244-and the 244 is very quiet!
A smart way to get a 2 track is to get one of the walkman type
recorder/players. Then you can use it to record, and then listen to
it later anywhere.
Chris
philboyd studge
New member
I've used mini disks for years for backround accompanyment for live work. Generally I'll mix bass and drums and not much else for my solo stuff, but it gives me a lot to play off of. I've yet to find another media player as reliable and with quicker spool up time.
Secondly, I always use a minidisk for backup when I record live to my hard disk recorder.
Remember, if you're mixing to a minidisk, mix as you would to MP3 and cut your lows at 60hz and highs at 15Khz and you'll have a nice fat sound.
Secondly, I always use a minidisk for backup when I record live to my hard disk recorder.
Remember, if you're mixing to a minidisk, mix as you would to MP3 and cut your lows at 60hz and highs at 15Khz and you'll have a nice fat sound.
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
I'll have to refer to the specs later,...
but I'm pretty sure all the consumer Sony MD recorders, full size components, have 24 bit A/D-D/A's, which then goes through the ATRAC data compression, and then to MD in the ATRAC format.
Like I said, I'll check the specs later, about the 24-bit front A/d-D/A's.
Anyway, I haven't had time to look this up either, but will later, and that is,... what's the front end A/D-D/A's on the 564? Hmmm? I'll look it up later. C'ya.
Agreed, MD is not suitable for 'full-pro' work, since the bulk of the professional recording world is 24/96-uncompressed recording, but MD is a good digital format, nonetheless. It's targeted for the mid-level digital market, and it's a heck of a lot better than cassette. MD is good for read/write digital in the studio or the field, but it's not 'pro-format'.
I think the debate on whether the compression affects the sound or not, will go on for ever. For what it's worth, I've never heard anything wrong with MD digital recording in ATRAC format, and you can quote mathematical formulas all you want, but IMO, whatever difference there is, you may be able to calculate it, or display it on a scope, but the differences would be well below the threshold of human hearing. I just think people 'think' they're hearing a difference, because they 'should'. In other words, I think it's a psycho-acoustic placebo effect, or plainly, people are fooling themselves. Anyway, that's my 2c.
I'm in the computer industry, and data compression is used all the time, and it never harms the data. How do you think they get 80 Gig of data on one little reel of tape, that will fit in the palm of your hand? The data always uncompresses normally, and IMO, so does the ATRAC/MD data.
Okay, now that's 4c worth of opinion.
but I'm pretty sure all the consumer Sony MD recorders, full size components, have 24 bit A/D-D/A's, which then goes through the ATRAC data compression, and then to MD in the ATRAC format.
Like I said, I'll check the specs later, about the 24-bit front A/d-D/A's.
Anyway, I haven't had time to look this up either, but will later, and that is,... what's the front end A/D-D/A's on the 564? Hmmm? I'll look it up later. C'ya.
Agreed, MD is not suitable for 'full-pro' work, since the bulk of the professional recording world is 24/96-uncompressed recording, but MD is a good digital format, nonetheless. It's targeted for the mid-level digital market, and it's a heck of a lot better than cassette. MD is good for read/write digital in the studio or the field, but it's not 'pro-format'.
I think the debate on whether the compression affects the sound or not, will go on for ever. For what it's worth, I've never heard anything wrong with MD digital recording in ATRAC format, and you can quote mathematical formulas all you want, but IMO, whatever difference there is, you may be able to calculate it, or display it on a scope, but the differences would be well below the threshold of human hearing. I just think people 'think' they're hearing a difference, because they 'should'. In other words, I think it's a psycho-acoustic placebo effect, or plainly, people are fooling themselves. Anyway, that's my 2c.
I'm in the computer industry, and data compression is used all the time, and it never harms the data. How do you think they get 80 Gig of data on one little reel of tape, that will fit in the palm of your hand? The data always uncompresses normally, and IMO, so does the ATRAC/MD data.
Okay, now that's 4c worth of opinion.
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Regarding live stereo recording with a MD portable,...
it would be best to set the unit on a surface, or have a stereo mic on a tripod, or else you might be susceptible to picking up handling noise on the recording.
Anyway, I prever running an entire mixer as a front end into an MD.
QUOTE: philboyd studge: "Secondly, I always use a minidisk for backup when I record live to my hard disk recorder."
>> So do I, when I record to wavs on my 'puter. [I actually don't do much field work lately, and I don't have a standalone CDR recorder.]
QUOTE: philboyd studge: "I've yet to find another media player as reliable"
>> True, because the disc is enclosed in a protective cartridge. CDs always tend to get scratched with regular use.
it would be best to set the unit on a surface, or have a stereo mic on a tripod, or else you might be susceptible to picking up handling noise on the recording.
Anyway, I prever running an entire mixer as a front end into an MD.
QUOTE: philboyd studge: "Secondly, I always use a minidisk for backup when I record live to my hard disk recorder."
>> So do I, when I record to wavs on my 'puter. [I actually don't do much field work lately, and I don't have a standalone CDR recorder.]
QUOTE: philboyd studge: "I've yet to find another media player as reliable"
>> True, because the disc is enclosed in a protective cartridge. CDs always tend to get scratched with regular use.
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Re: I'll have to refer to the specs later,...
The compression mechanism used in ATRAC is LOSSY compression, where the restored audio signal is NOT equivalent to the original - the ATRAC algorithms determine what components of the sound is masked by the other components of the sound and literally throws that information away, saving that storage space in the meantime....
To be honest, this has been explained many times since I've been at this site (by me and others) so I'm surprised that you still do not understand the difference.....!?!?!
I can hear the difference - hardly "inaudible to the threshold of human hearing."A Reel Person said:
That's NOT the same thing at all.... the compression scheme used in data storage is LOSSLESS compression -- meaning the data gets restored to it original pattern - bit for bit........A Reel Person said:
The compression mechanism used in ATRAC is LOSSY compression, where the restored audio signal is NOT equivalent to the original - the ATRAC algorithms determine what components of the sound is masked by the other components of the sound and literally throws that information away, saving that storage space in the meantime....
To be honest, this has been explained many times since I've been at this site (by me and others) so I'm surprised that you still do not understand the difference.....!?!?!
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Track Rat
Just Your Average Sized Member
Granted, my MD is an older one so I haven't heard the most recent vintage of ATRAC compression but I can definately hear teh artifacts of mine. It's not horrible by any means but I wouldn't want it to be my final master.
D
DougC
New member
Opinions, opinions, , ,
-Minidiscs aren't studio-quality. They definitely aren't anything I'd mix from and re-mix onto.
-However, walkman-type MD recorders sound very good for doing stereo recording, especially if you get good miniature powered microphones. If you use a computer to rip a commercial CD to a MD and let ordinary people audition one of them on a typical home stereo system, (without listening to both) most people listening simply can't tell if a recording is off the MD or the CD.
-Minidiscs aren't studio-quality. They definitely aren't anything I'd mix from and re-mix onto.
-However, walkman-type MD recorders sound very good for doing stereo recording, especially if you get good miniature powered microphones. If you use a computer to rip a commercial CD to a MD and let ordinary people audition one of them on a typical home stereo system, (without listening to both) most people listening simply can't tell if a recording is off the MD or the CD.
C
chessparov
New member
The 16 bit ATRAC 2 on the Tascam 564 sounds very good for
making demos. If you A/B a CD source versus the 16 bit MD copy,
the MD copy sounds slighty less "present" and "thinner".
Adding effects like reverb at the last step of mixing helps make this almost inaudible.
The 24 bit type R on the Sony 2 track MD sounds very, very good
IMHO. The MD copies of a CD on this system are extremely close.
The main difference heard seems to mainly due to the 5 db
differential in the signal to noise ratio of each unit.
The Tascam weighs in at at around 87db S/N for the recorder portion. So it's S/N ratio is similar to a 4 track 1/4" reel to reel
running at 7.5" per second if that helps as a frame of reference.
All in all, most happy with the sound and simplicity of the 564!
Chris
making demos. If you A/B a CD source versus the 16 bit MD copy,
the MD copy sounds slighty less "present" and "thinner".
Adding effects like reverb at the last step of mixing helps make this almost inaudible.
The 24 bit type R on the Sony 2 track MD sounds very, very good
IMHO. The MD copies of a CD on this system are extremely close.
The main difference heard seems to mainly due to the 5 db
differential in the signal to noise ratio of each unit.
The Tascam weighs in at at around 87db S/N for the recorder portion. So it's S/N ratio is similar to a 4 track 1/4" reel to reel
running at 7.5" per second if that helps as a frame of reference.
All in all, most happy with the sound and simplicity of the 564!
Chris
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Thanx chess, good answer.
T
The Green Hornet
New member
Yo REEL Person of Reality:
Hey, man, the 2816 is outstanding. It has headroom more than a convention of bald headed females.
It has programs for sound that astound. It is a well done steak to learn but, with patience, it can be done. It took me a couple of months to get the hang of the box; it does MARVELOUS sound, even if you don't know all the routing, punching, mixing, eq-ing, etc.ing.
Love the 2816.
Green Hornet
Happy Labor Day
Hey, man, the 2816 is outstanding. It has headroom more than a convention of bald headed females.
It has programs for sound that astound. It is a well done steak to learn but, with patience, it can be done. It took me a couple of months to get the hang of the box; it does MARVELOUS sound, even if you don't know all the routing, punching, mixing, eq-ing, etc.ing.
Love the 2816.
Green Hornet
Happy Labor Day
C
chessparov
New member
Thanks Dave for the compliment!
(especially in view of your Tascam knowledge)
Chris
(especially in view of your Tascam knowledge)
Chris
D
DougC
New member
Well, to clarify:
-I use a walkman-style MD recorder to do portable stereo hifi recording. Then I transfer the MD recording to a computer and have my way with it there.
-What I don't do is repeatedly re-mix from, and back onto, a MD. So when I use the MD for anything, the sound is only recorded onto the MD one time.
~
I don't see it mentioned much, but for amateur use/portable stereo recording, a walkman-MD is the sheet: it sounds very close to a CD/DAT, but costs far less.
-I use a walkman-style MD recorder to do portable stereo hifi recording. Then I transfer the MD recording to a computer and have my way with it there.
-What I don't do is repeatedly re-mix from, and back onto, a MD. So when I use the MD for anything, the sound is only recorded onto the MD one time.
~
I don't see it mentioned much, but for amateur use/portable stereo recording, a walkman-MD is the sheet: it sounds very close to a CD/DAT, but costs far less.
G
Gregwor
New member
I am a fan of the MD8 Yamaha 8 track recorder.
I sure would by a Yamaha 4416 if I had the cash, however, the MD8 works fine. The preamps I'm sure aren't the greatest, however, I can hear little fatigue in quality in regards to compression issues.
For the $, they are great. 18 minutes per disk sucks. Limited places to purchase the mini disk data disks suck.
I've done totally decent recordings with my MD8, and plan to for quite some time. Being compressed once isn't gonna ruin your entire tone.
I sure would by a Yamaha 4416 if I had the cash, however, the MD8 works fine. The preamps I'm sure aren't the greatest, however, I can hear little fatigue in quality in regards to compression issues.
For the $, they are great. 18 minutes per disk sucks. Limited places to purchase the mini disk data disks suck.
I've done totally decent recordings with my MD8, and plan to for quite some time. Being compressed once isn't gonna ruin your entire tone.
M
memriloc
New member
Yep!
I use MD's ALL the time for stereo live dumps via 2 PZM's....the only time it sounds bad is from a bad room....I use it in the studio for rough mixes and rehursal tapeing....I actually did our CD's final master on MD, only 'cause there was no other way to do it with the time we had and it turned out REALY well!
I use MD's ALL the time for stereo live dumps via 2 PZM's....the only time it sounds bad is from a bad room....I use it in the studio for rough mixes and rehursal tapeing....I actually did our CD's final master on MD, only 'cause there was no other way to do it with the time we had and it turned out REALY well!
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Re: Yep!
memriloc said:
M
memriloc
New member
???
Blue Bear Sound
New member
The word "master" and MiniDisc are like polar opposites........!
MD isn't even an appropriate mixdown format, much less something you want to master with...!
BUT...... that being said, it's a step up from using a cassette deck, I suppose!
MD isn't even an appropriate mixdown format, much less something you want to master with...!
BUT...... that being said, it's a step up from using a cassette deck, I suppose!