Mind Blowing!

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I'm with legionserial, there's nothing wrong with using these kinds of tools to fix one or two small problems in an otherwise killer take in order to save that take. But when such tools are used as a substitute for actual talent, yes I personally have a problem with that.

And don't kid yourself; it's being done every day here, and most certainly not just in rap music. I have nothing against the use of tools like Drumagog or Melodyne for similar reasons, but we have people here who trigger every hit and replace every hit with a sample because they can't really actually play the drums, or use Melodyne not to fix one or two sour notes, but to actually try to get it to sound like thy can carry a tune in something other than a bucket, or try to use compression not to tame dynamics or shape a sfx sound, but rather to try and make up for the fact that they can't hit a skin the same way twice or have no idea how to work a microphone or modulate their volume properly.

Now we can add to the list of those that see such normally esoteric tools as substitutes for talent those that can't play chords or tune their guitar proplerly.

G.
 
Yep, have to agree with Glen on this one. If used as a tool for for fixing minor things these products are great. It's kind of like the spell-check function right here on HR.com. So if perhaps you type "proplerly" by accident it will let you know that you need to correct it. Sorry Glen, I couldn't resist.;)
 
Glen probably thinks that a talented chef with a sharp knife can cut a radish better than my food processor!! LOL! I love technology!
 
M10K said:
Sorry Glen, I couldn't resist.;)
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Hey, my typos have become part of my popular charm (ya...right :rolleyes:).

I just never got around to d/ling the spell checker, I keep forgetting. But I'm doing it now, so you won't have Geln to kcik aruond anymroe. Thanks for the freendlie remainder :D.

G.
 
mikemorgan said:
Glen probably thinks that a talented chef with a sharp knife can cut a radish better than my food processor!! LOL! I love technology!
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Let's see your Cuisinart do this (see below): ;)

I have nothing against technology. I just find it to be a lousy substitute for talent. And where there is no talent, there is no reason to record.

G.
 

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SouthSIDE Glen said:
I'm with legionserial, there's nothing wrong with using these kinds of tools to fix one or two small problems in an otherwise killer take in order to save that take. But when such tools are used as a substitute for actual talent, yes I personally have a problem with that.
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That's pretty much exactly what I was saying with maybe a little exaggeration...:rolleyes:
 
Hey...I love cool hardware as much as the next gear slut but this may be going too far in the direction of democratizing the process of making music. Bad enough when I hear singing on the radio that sounds more like a diesel truck horn than a person. I keep my sanity by reminding myself of the duality between hi-tech and hi-touch. The more hi-tech stuff (music) gets, the more premium there is on hi-touch ( real talent).
Maybe the dragon can set it uo so that when a newb asks a dumb question about recording vocals, the melodyne ad will pop up.

chazba
 
did anyone else hear the VO pronounce MIDI as 'me-dee'
?? lol :eek:


I can see this technology giving more flexibility to people who like to transcribe. This would make figuring out complex chords a lot faster.
 
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okay, i just got further in the video...you can actually just choose from a list of options which key you want it to play back in?? that's cool!
 
You guys, just because someone uses a tool like this doesn't mean that the person being recorded can't play. People have been doing comp tracks for years without anyone looking at them like they're some sort of crazy. People can make mistakes, and sometimes a take is just PERFECT except for that one thing...that ONE tiny issue, well you can fix that issue in 2 secs with melodyne and get back to doing music, instead of trying to recreate the take without some tiny issue. And then, there is also it's usefulness for remixing, working with looop and sample libraries. Imagine this, with some of the sample libraries out there you could work with some glasandos or runs in a much more realistic way, you could have them playing whatever the fuck you wanted in the run with that. For me, something like that opens up a lot of possibilities with orchestral libraries, and I'm bloody excited for it to come out!
 
danny.guitar said:
That's pretty much exactly what I was saying with maybe a little exaggeration...:rolleyes:
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Like I didn't say but should have, I'm with danny.g on this one ;) :D

chazba said:
I love cool hardware as much as the next gear slut but this may be going too far in the direction of democratizing the process of making music...I keep my sanity by reminding myself of the duality between hi-tech and hi-touch. The more hi-tech stuff (music) gets, the more premium there is on hi-touch ( real talent).
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Somebody's been re-reading their old copy of "Megatrends" again, haven't they? ;). It's the high touch side that I've been trying to champion (against the odds) here for a while. It's all about talent, on both sides of the glass.
bennychico11 said:
I can see this technology giving more flexibility to people who like to transcribe. This would make figuring out complex chords a lot faster.
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Now that is a great idea. In fact, I'd be suprised if someone isn't in the process of taking that technology and your idea one step further and creating an auto-transcription program with it.
Terra Mortim said:
You guys, just because someone uses a tool like this doesn't mean that the person being recorded can't play. People have been doing comp tracks for years without anyone looking at them like they're some sort of crazy.
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As I said back in post #21, there's nothing wrong with using these kinds of tools to fix one or two small problems in an otherwise killer take in order to save that take.

But you know as well as I do that the vast majority of HR's that limewire this stuff don't use this stuff to punch in track fixes so much as they do to try to fix virtually the entire performance.

It's not the fault of the technology. I don't blame Melodyne or Drumagog, or MBCs any more than I blame the invention of the carbine rifle for JFK's assasination, or the invention of the compact disc for that awful Richie Havens CD I picked up last summer. Its the misguided shortcut-to-quality mentality that whores this software for boneheaed purposes that bothers me.

G.
 
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The way he pronounced MIDI annoyed me profusely...

The actual thing looks interesting, but it's certainly not something I'll be using. Also, the female vocals in this video sound ridiculously tuned...
 
Concrete_Lake said:
The way he pronounced MIDI annoyed me profusely...
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THANK YOU!


The actual thing looks interesting, but it's certainly not something I'll be using. Also, the female vocals in this video sound ridiculously tuned...
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they're the same vocals from the other vids, I believe. Which they tuned with melodyne ;)

Now that is a great idea. In fact, I'd be suprised if someone isn't in the process of taking that technology and your idea one step further and creating an auto-transcription program with it.
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I used to use a program called Transcribe awhile back. It was a nice little program that show you where the strongest notes sat in relative to pitches on a keyboard. You could select a measure or even a single beat and it would tell you which notes were there. Obviously it wasn't as intuitive as Melodyne seems to be, but it helped at times. I also like it's ability to variate the tempo.

I would love to see how Melodyne works with multitrack projects. There are lots of times I could think of when working with production music that I'd like to get rid of a certain note of a certain instrument....or an instrument all together. The video only seems to concentrate around a single instrument. Of course, I'm not hoping for miracles ;)
 
He's saying "meaty" not "MIDI". So, now I am even MORE intrigued. Does this mean I can get more "meat" out of my tracks using this beefy new software? Interesting prospect! :rolleyes:

In a strange paradox, I have simultaneous feelings of absolute awe and disgust. Here's another reason to start listening to more raw, visceral, angry and offensive punk music. Or, go make some myself in the back yard for the numbed out video game playing neighbors who never come out of the house. Back to the ole "three chords and the truth" cliche.

On a side note...Remember the a$$hole who used to crank his new Marshall half stack down the street so you could hear it? Yeah, with the shiny new black Jackson guitar? We didn't hate him for making so much noise. It was because his parents could actually afford him some quality gear and he could REALLY play guitar :cool: It was something to aspire to. Now, here's another painful reminder that that guy has been replaced with fat faced Johnny pumpin' doritos into his mouth while he humps his pseudo-phallic piece of guitar hero plastic imitation guitar in the hopes of concocting some sense of self importance and validation. Now he'll have chord correction to boot when he records his debut release on his Micro Mac Attack using only a USB 3.0 dildo for both, instrument and audio interface. Rock on Johnny! Can't wait to share a ding dong with ya at the next online GH competition ;)

Maybe the next thing we'll see from these clowns is a way to interject new lyrics (with fabricated depth derived from literature written during a more "human" era) and meaning into a song already recorded which basically says nothing about nothing. Then we can retrofit ohhhh, about the last couple of decades from the majority of modern music so that it actually SAYS something that is worth listening to.

Suddenly, those live recordings of Jeff Buckley on YouTube have me all nostalgic about that thing we used to call music. As much as we "pitch correct" poor vocal takes maybe we can "attitude correct" the mindset of people who think watching American Idol and playing Guitar Hero (in that order) is akin to understanding "talent" and being "musical". We are swiftly becoming the multi-generational-cloned-parody of what was once known as musicians. By the time Guitar Hero 9 is released (sometime next year I'm sure) you're going to find schooled musicians such as myself burning their REAL guitars in the backyard in favor of taking up the trumpet, a REAL instrument that STILL requires talent to make it sound right. Miles Davis was a prophet. He saw it comin'!

Pardon me while I abruptly go and purge myself....

PS - I couldn't help but see the parallel in this press release today: "LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Pop star Britney Spears releases a music video on Wednesday that features the troubled singer as an animated superhero in a futuristic world."

It speaks volumes doesn't it??
 
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i was really impressed by all of this.

i wonder how well it would do with a vocal quartet.

the possibilities are incredible.


think...a program could listen to a recording, and print out sheet music. ear training class just pushed a foot out the window! slightly sad.
 
Responding to posts by Falken, cello pudding, SSG, legionserial...

Why is it that you guys automatically start thinking "fix bad performance"? Why can't you think "Wow, cool, another sound mangling tool"?

I don't think it's the tool that's the problem, it's thinking such as you and others who automatically classify tools such as Melodyne as correction tools rather than creative ones.

Think creative. Think different.

Great... see what you've done? Now I sound like a damn Apple commercial :mad: :p
 
noisewreck said:
Responding to posts by Falken, cello pudding, SSG, legionserial...

Why is it that you guys automatically start thinking "fix bad performance"? Why can't you think "Wow, cool, another sound mangling tool"?
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A realm of sound mangling possibilities went through my head, but sadly, I fear that "fix bad performance" is going to be its most common application.
 
At the risk of being flamed:

I thought I'd share my thoughts on the use of Melodyne and similar technology. I fully admit that I use the plugin on many of my vocal tracks (I'll go one step farther and admit I have no vocal talent what so ever).

I feel that Melodyne can be used as a creative tool, and that is the way I tend to use it most. Being in a one man band situation, I'll typically record a scratch vocal close to what I am hearing in my head. It a rare occasion that I actually get it right on the scratch vocal take I try to double it and move on. When I don't nail it is where I use Melodyne as a composition tool. It allows me to try different melodies and rhythms to tweak the lines to my liking. I usually then sing along to the altered scratch track for several takes and comp the best bits together. And yes, i may use it to fix intonation issues on the final takes if there is a need.

My point is that Melodyne can be a creative tool for composition that allows experimentation that would otherwise be difficult for many to achieve. I'm not using it to try to fool anyone, I am simply attempting to compose a song thats conveying the mood, feeling and ideas that originally inspired the song. I am in awe of, and take my hat off to those real singing talents that can nail the perfect emotional, moving vocal on the first take. Unfortunately I don't have one of those at my disposal. :)

Fireproof underwear now on, flame away!
 
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