Miley Cyrus song - Using Autotune?

[Daisy]

I believe it may punch a hole in the fabric of the universe ...

... and every child born from that point on will have perfect pitch.

 

[WhiteStrat]

I knew it was something on a cosmic level like that...

 

[Wazn]

Yep, sounds like AT or melodyne, Disney's superstars are rolling around in pitch correction like no tomorrow.

I know autotune/melodyne are used on almost every pop album today, because everyone wants to hear something "perfect" but Miley Cyrus... Hillary Duff... Can they really sing? I guess we'd have to ask an engineer who worked on those sessions.

I'm sure they can sing up to a certain point... but we all know they are not the next Whitney Houston. and are probably going to die off soon, untill their next album.

 

[Mike Cleary]

Nearly all big studios use a little bit of autotuning to get it perfect
especially with background harmonies
or long long notes held out without vibrato
overproduction ftw

 

[drfringe]

to play devils advocate: let me ask, is auto tune really that different from DAW editing/quantizing/chorus or over compression? Why is it that you can run music through all sorts of shit effects and never get grief, but you get a red flag every time auto tune goes off. I hear tons of good and bad singers using and abusing effects and punch ins, etc with out being dissed but every time someone uses auto tune they go at you like a pinata. Just curious why this is the black sheep of effects.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Why is it that you can run music through all sorts of shit effects and never get grief, but you get a red flag every time auto tune goes off.

There is an important fundamental difference. Most people are not running their instruments through those shit effects to make it sound more like the real thing, they are doing that to make it sound less like it.

IOW, you don't see a hack trumpet player running his recording through a black box that makes him sound like Wynton Marsellis. Where you do see that kind of thing, with stuff like using Drumagog to cover the fact that the drummer is actually a spaz on the beater pedal and is lucky to hit the snare three times without clipping the rim, you *do* see a lot of complaint. Maybe not as much as Autotune, but then again Drumagog never had a whole Simpsons episode written around it either .

And before someone brings up using sample libraries to make an orchestra or choir or something artificial like that, that is also a different story. One still has to compose the line and "play" the library like an instrument all it's own. It still requires musicianship.

It's when the boundaries are crossed and a tool is used not to enhance musicianship, but to replace it, that people start to raise their hands in objection.

G.

 

[Wazn]

to play devils advocate: let me ask, is auto tune really that different from DAW editing/quantizing/chorus or over compression? Why is it that you can run music through all sorts of shit effects and never get grief, but you get a red flag every time auto tune goes off. I hear tons of good and bad singers using and abusing effects and punch ins, etc with out being dissed but every time someone uses auto tune they go at you like a pinata. Just curious why this is the black sheep of effects.

I agree with everything you say. I would assume that the majority of the consumers don't care and don't know what auto-tune is (all they know is that the vocal sounds a little robotic). It's the people who do know what it is, and some are old fashioned when it comes to singing and some are new school.

Many individuals believe a vocal artist must sing naturally (and do it well)... without aid of auto-tune, and their singing ability must sound pleasant.

Where as the new guys are not afraid to use auto-tune to aid their mix or make an artist have perfect pitch. (again almost every commercial record recorded produced now WILL have auto-tune)

It just comes down to the individual and how they feel about auto-tune... when you think about it... many artists/bands these days do not write their songs... so without the "perfect" sounding vocal (vocals are undoubtedly the most important part of a song) how will they sell albums?

We don't want to hear a dying goat on a record now do we?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

It just comes down to the individual and how they feel about auto-tune... when you think about it... many artists/bands these days do not write their songs... so without the "perfect" sounding vocal (vocals are undoubtedly the most important part of a song) how will they sell albums?

We don't want to hear a dying goat on a record now do we?

There's also absolutely NOTHING new about people not writing their own songs; I don't get that argument whatsoever. Ever hear of Irving Berlin, George and Ira Gershwin, Cole Porter, Tin Pan Alley, The Brill Building or Motown? Most of the hit records of the 20th century were of songs written by people other than the ones who performed on the record.

It's not how one feels about auto-tune, it's how one feels about talent and artisanship. If you sound like a dying goat, either you're a Bob Dylan who actually has a talent that's worth recording despite the unconventional voice, and doesn't need auto-tune to pretend he has a conventional one, or you're a lousy singer/songwriter/musician who really does sound like a dying goat and should find a different interest than stepping in front of a microphone.

Should it be OK for someone who is 5'2" to strap on some robotic prosthetics just so they can compete in the NBA? Should the Olympic Goal medals go to the country with the most advanced biochemistry labs?

Take away the importance of natural ability and natural ability will disappear. Let everybody who wants to play in the NBA by artificial means do so, and the NBA will wind up as something no one cares about any more. And what's the point of competing in an Olympic sport when you know the Freedonians are going to win because they have the best genetic anabolic steroid program on the planet? Let anybody and everybody record the perfect song, and people will stop listening because there will be nothing special about them any more. And the Larry Birds and Whitney Houstons of this world will wind up doing tech support for Guitar Center instead of what they were put on this planet to do.

Talent is something to be protected and cherished, not ignored and faked.

G.

 

[pipelineaudio]

And before someone brings up using sample libraries to make an orchestra or choir or something artificial like that, that is also a different story. One still has to compose the line and "play" the library like an instrument all it's own. It still requires musicianship.

Same thing with drumagog

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Same thing with drumagog

When you have someone who admits they are not a drummer and uses it to create a performance on computer, sure. When you use it to cover for the fact that the drummer is actually no drummer at all, not so much.

When you have someone calling themselves a drummer but actually taking credit for what the engineer is actually doing, I call bulls**t on it. In that case, why shouldn't the mix engineer take the credit for drumming? What you hear on the record is far more his work and artisanship than the mook sitting behind the kit. In fact, why not just get rid of the drummer altogether, and hire a guy to play Drumagog? it's not like "the drummer" in that case is actually contributing anything. Get someone up there to play Drumagog like an instrument, and that's fine.

G.

 

[pipelineaudio]

The drummer's track sort of tells me what it is he MEANT to play, being that Im not creative enough to just kick him out and make it all myself. Also, the cymbals and stuff are from the drummer, even if they are edited to all hell.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

The drummer's track sort of tells me what it is he MEANT to play, being that Im not creative enough to just kick him out and make it all myself. Also, the cymbals and stuff are from the drummer, even if they are edited to all hell.

I'm sorry, pipe, but we just gotta disagree on this one. You deserve at least equal billing for drummer on any recording like that, on top of your engineering credits.

If "the drummer" can't play what "he MEANT to play", that is the very definition of not knowing how to play the instrument. He has no business calling himself a drummer. And he has no business putting himself in front of the microphones.

We're not talking about correcting one or two minor mistakes here. We're talking about synthesizing entire performances because the drummer can't even keep a beat or hit a drum with measured force. I mean, come on. What is even the use of a drummer who can't keep a beat?

I own a guitar, I can play a few chords and knock out the melodies of a few songs. But I would never in a million years consider myself or call myself a "guitarist", nor would I ever be interested in griding out some piece of shit line and having someone run it through some future guitaragog (actually the new Melodyne comes pretty close) so that I come out the other end sounding like Stevie Ray Vaughn.

My god, there's way too many actual quality guitarists out there that make my jaw drop when I watch them play (even if I were deaf, I'd get enjoyment out of just watching their hands at work.) Who the hell would I think I was, what kind of pompous ass would I have to be, to even try to stand next to them and wear the same uniform they do while wearing my 'goged robotic stilts?

G.

 

[RAMI]

I agree with everything you say. I would assume that the majority of the consumers don't care and don't know what auto-tune is (all they know is that the vocal sounds a little robotic). It's the people who do know what it is, and some are old fashioned when it comes to singing and some are new school.

Many individuals believe a vocal artist must sing naturally (and do it well)... without aid of auto-tune, and their singing ability must sound pleasant.

Where as the new guys are not afraid to use auto-tune to aid their mix or make an artist have perfect pitch. (again almost every commercial record recorded produced now WILL have auto-tune)

It just comes down to the individual and how they feel about auto-tune... when you think about it... many artists/bands these days do not write their songs... so without the "perfect" sounding vocal (vocals are undoubtedly the most important part of a song) how will they sell albums?

We don't want to hear a dying goat on a record now do we?

Hmmmm....If someone sounds like a dying goat, maybe they should practice until they're good enough to record their voice. I realize that's a foreign concept to many people these days....too much effort, I guess..

Nobody's saying Auto-Tune SHOULDN'T ever be used. But, when something CORRECTS a performance, instead of simply enhancing it, then what's the point of anyone having any talent???

Yeah yeah, I know.....Who cares about talent, right???? Why try to be good at something if you can just press a button, strike the right gangsta pose, and then claim you're the greatest because you managed to gather 5,000 "friends" on MySpace.

 

[Wazn]

Hmmmm....If someone sounds like a dying goat, maybe they should practice until they're good enough to record their voice. I realize that's a foreign concept to many people these days....too much effort, I guess..

Nobody's saying Auto-Tune SHOULDN'T ever be used. But, when something CORRECTS a performance, instead of simply enhancing it, then what's the point of anyone having any talent???

Yeah yeah, I know.....Who cares about talent, right???? Why try to be good at something if you can just press a button, strike the right gangsta pose, and then claim you're the greatest because you managed to gather 5,000 "friends" on MySpace.

I totally agree to this.