Midimonkey

[frederic]

I've discovered a new way to build a professional sound studio, and wish to discourage all of you from doing so in this manner.

Even though my design is not even remotely complete, I'm still shuffling rooms around annoying my architect (ooops), even if stuff is dirt cheap, its a good idea not to buy too many materials ahead of time until your design is finished.

After a walk through of the space this past sunday with the architect and the GC I'm considering using, both were rather alarmed to see 5 piles 4 of 12' 2x6's, 8 spools of 24ch TRS cable, tons of 1" diameter steel pipe, and enough pergo hardwood to pave a 2-lane highway. All snagged from auctions, businesses going out of business, and some other non-discussable cheap sources.

Lets just say "they be pissed" I've also discovered the cheapest way to buy 30A 220V electrial wire is on a spool. I have 2500 foot spool ready to go.

At least my machine shop tenant is finally moved in and ready to pay rent, so no longer will I go into pocket to have this building sit here. They already have a few motors sitting in the shop waiting for rebuilds, so they are in good shape. Too bad the heater on their side doesn't fire up LOL.

 

[longsoughtfor]

LOL!!

I think it is a great idea to piss off your architect and GC in one felled swoop. All projects end that way, why not cut to the chase and start out there!

Still Laughing...
Kevin.

 

[frederic]

I think it is a great idea to piss off your architect and GC in one felled swoop. All projects end that way, why not cut to the chase and start out there!

Yeah, I know But douglas fir 12'x2"x6" for 30 cents a pop I couldn't argue with. A few of them are a little warped but considering the local Home Depot sells them for about 6 bucks a pop, I wasn't going to whine about a few crooked ones.

The same with the 24-ch trs cable. Its Marshall, which I know is made by someone else, but for a buck a foot on a spool I bought all of it because if there is extra, I can make a few TRS XLR snakes or use it to hang big lamps. It was cheap enough.

Cheap overcomes a lot of faults, no? <smile>

 

[frederic]

Drawing #37 (I think)

This just gets worse and worse

Friggen columns Grrrrrrrrrr!

 

[kristian]

the iso-room is so isolated, no one will ever get in or out!!!

 

[frederic]

the iso-room is so isolated, no one will ever get in or out!!!

Its that isolated for a reason. Musicians I don't like go in there until.... heh-heh.

its a work in progress

 

[sjoko2]

the iso-room is so isolated, no one will ever get in or out!!!

\

The eversoisoroom?

A question on the layout - the large space where the columns are?
What is that going to be?

 

[frederic]

The eversoisoroom?

It has doors now I have to figure out how I got three walls between the main console room and the large iso room, thats an interesting quirk I did.

A question on the layout - the large space where the columns are? What is that going to be?

Thats undesigned... but... I was thinking of building a pair of walls diagonol from the console room corner to the pole, then to the fire door area, making two larger rooms. Or a larger room and a smaller room all the way to the right as a drum room. These are just random thoughts.

Ideally, I'd have a "midi composing room" all the way to the right against the garage bays since soundproofing is less critical for playing with Midi, run the cabling behind the main console room to the machine room, and north of that have a large iso room for drumkits and/or a piano, and a big live room at the top, reaching the main console room.

The smaller console room on the left is what i would call a mastering, or mixing room, so that recording can be done in the main area, while mixing/mastering of another project be done in the smaller room.

Just ideas... revision 37

As you can see I'm not very good at this.

 

[sjoko2]

I wouldn't say you're not very good at it, considering its not your job, its showing promise!

I just wondered where your main tracking area was going to be, i.e. if the big space was going to be part of the studio.

 

[frederic]

I wouldn't say you're not very good at it, considering its not your job, its showing promise!

Thank you, that was very kind

I just wondered where your main tracking area was going to be, i.e. if the big space was going to be part of the studio.

Yeah, the big space on the top and right that the two columns, and the fuel tank are in.... the majority of that is going to be a live area assuming I keep this design heh-heh.

The problem I keep running across is that I'm trying to carve up the space too much. When I bought the building, I was thinking "Damn, 3375 sq feet is HUGE!"

After the first 15 or so drawings I realized its not quite that big. Of course the columns keep getting in the way, which is annoying.

Then I got smart, since the leftmost 1/4 of the building (from those two columns left) has a 12' ceiling with a slab over it unlike the rest of the building, I'll give up a little 1st floor real estate and put stairs in, thus taking out the offices and cubes and conference room, moving that junk to the second floor.

Then I thought... "Damn, 3375 sq feet of usable space is HUGE!".

Yet its still not! Trying to design around the columns gave me the most trouble for the longest time too... I wasted a lot of time on that. However, after a lot of research on my architect's time both of those columns in the big live area on the right can in fact be removed, if I go for approximately 45K worth of steel work to use the concrete walls for support of a cross beam (or two) and support the roof off that. I'm still trying to design around the beams because 45K of gear is a lot of gear. Or, 45K of soundproofing, plumbing, walls, sheet rock, hardwood, etc. Thats a good chunk of cash to part with just to remove two 12" square obsticals. But I may have to. THis is the closet design that I've done where the upward beams aren't totally in the way.

Trust me, I'm aware of the oversized deadspace on the bottom left. The huge storage room is grossly oversized and the machine room while cute with all those racks, is also grossly oversized. I'm thinking of rotating the big console room slightly and moving it left, so the front still faces the majority of the live area, but shortening up the machine room, and using the bottom storage (leftmost room) as the vocal/iso booth for the left, smaller console room. This way the live area can be much larger, and I can put smaller iso's off the perimeter walls.

I'm not sure if my problem is my brain or my ability to get my visualizations into visio fast enough before I dislike the design

I really should just stop being a cheap bastard and pay the architect to figure this out and give him a room list and approximate "goal" dimensions.

Also, the big area on the right (basically, any room right of the leftmost columns) can be up to three stories high. Even if the rooms are slightly smaller than I want I can get tremendous "air" because right now there is no ceilings or 2nd floor in the way at all. I'm in 2d mode right now trying to just get a basic layout.

 

[frederic]

Woooohoooooo!

Just got a call from my tenant, he had to unlock my side and let a 24' long roll of 1/4" neoprene in !!!!

Soon I won't have any room to build anything

 

[kristian]

I haven't read your criteria for your warehouse/poles/studio area. However, no offense to you, your utilisation of space was killing me. You had a lot of pokey rooms. Lets get some SPACE! Cover up the ple in the big live room with something that makes it look cool, like bricks, or wood, its not going to ruin the sound i don't think. but give people space to LIVE! make your control room bigger, people while caged up like space. as for acoustics, i have no idea what will happen.

Oh yea, there is no "mastering room" or "midi room". but really, how many things do you plan on doing at once? just my idea.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

I think your doin just fine frederic. Only you know what you need and how your going to do it in relationship to the existing. I Would work around the columns though, if it were me. More $ for gear.
fitz

 

[sjoko2]

I really should just stop being a cheap bastard and pay the architect to figure this out and give him a room list and approximate "goal" dimensions.

The problem is that architects make, on average, lousy studio designers. Just a suggestion....... Why don't you email John and ask him to help you with the design? Believe me, he is the most knowledgeable and cost-effective resource you'll find.

 

[Michael Jones]

R37's not too bad.
Just fur down the column and use it for electrical outlets.

 

[John Sayers]

The problem is that architects make, on average, lousy studio designers

they usually make lousy house designers also There's a house going up around here with a 2 degree roof angle!!! we are in subtropical where it's common to get 8" of rain in one night. They'll be swimming in the morning.
Thanks for the plug

cheers
JOhn

 

[frederic]

they usually make lousy house designers also There's a house going up around here with a 2 degree roof angle!!! we are in subtropical where it's common to get 8" of rain in one night. They'll be swimming in the morning.
Thanks for the plug

And a nice plug it was, and absolutely deserved

I'm not really using my architect as an architect, and he'll probably be annoyed at my calling him a "drawing monkey", because basically, thats all I'm asking him to do.

*I* am designing the space (using Visio).
*I* am specifying the materials to be used.
*I* am figuring out the layout.

Well, technically you've all helped greatly too, so much thanks, know that its very much appreciated whether I've incorporated the suggestions or not. The amount of thinking you've all forced me to do has been wonderful. While I've designed one studio before and built four (including this one), I've never put this much effort and attention to detail like this and aside from learning a tremendous amount (which is very satisfying) its also a lot of fun, even though its frustrating at times.

I tend to get frustrated easily simply because only my eyebrows are above the water. No fault other than my own, but its what i'm dealing with (like everyone else). I have a 80% complete mid-engined car stored in my buddy's body shop annoying him (it takes up space obviously), and I have enough parts in my garage to build another one, strewn carelessly all over the place. I have a 61 y/o house with the original everything, even the decor, that my wife keeps me busy remodeling, and oh, yes, I forgot, I work too Actually, thats where I do most of my studio drawings - at work, while on conference calls I really don't need to be on. Maximize every minute!!! Whew, that felt real good to let out! Wow, deep breath time!

Anyhoo...

Because all of the general contractors I've met with so far have asked for blueprints, and don't particularly like the laser-printer sized drawings I've provided, the architect stepped in and is taking my cruddy little drawings and making them full-scale "E" sized plots, then making blue copies with the ammonia machine so the people who might actually build this for me don't pitch a fit. It seems I can't find a GC with glasses?

Of course I could make this easy and just get my Houston Instruments "E" plotter fixed... just another thing I need to get to. Man, I'm so disorganized at times.

Anyway, the more I struggle with this the more I realize I need to slow down the implementation process, and be the GC myself. Its the more affordable way to do it, and at least I'll be present enough to "manage" folks for the parts I absolutely cannot do either because of local building codes and/or personal ability.

Someone said a few months ago: "however long and whatever cost you come up with to build your studio, double both" is right on the money. Even though most of the materials I've accumulated so far were beyond cheap, I see the wallet dollars getting ready to fly out of my wallet as if propelled by a leaf blower heh-heh.

Well, back to another conference call for 2 hours and some drawing time

 

[frederic]

Oh yea, there is no "mastering room" or "midi room". but really, how many things do you plan on doing at once? just my idea. [/B]

I like your drawing, I really do Kristian. I'll answer your question though - by having a "studio A", a "studio B" a practice room or two, and a midi room, results in the potential for more billable time and less scheduling hassles.

See, I don't expect the big beautiful studio to be rented every day, all day, all the time. So a few smaller "functional" services can allow the place to break even (or at least not hurt so much during downtime of the big studio) and attract different types of clients, actually.

Its possible that some midi composing types might want to record in the big studio after they complete some of their composing. Maybe a band that uses the practice room for a few months might consider using the big studio to make their demo. Maybe clients who use the smaller room for mastering might decide they want to re-do a vocal track and remix, then remaster. I believe the less costly peripheral services might draw some of my clients from the smaller services to the larger services.

Its kind of the reverse of food shopping at a large food store. You buy $80-100 worth of groceries, and while being tortured standing in line waiting your turn, you pick up gum, candy, magazines and eyeglass repair kits

My above theory is to draw people into the big studio by offering smaller services as well. I did this once before and it actually worked for me. My old studio in upstate NY had a single control room, a single live room used for everything, and along the back, longer wall I had four practice rooms rented for $25 or so an hour. Split by 4-5 band members it was dirt cheap, and a percentage of those customers eventually started to use the studio for demo recording. Customers that might have not chosen my studio without being there first, and comfortable in how they were treated with the scheduling of practice rooms.

Or maybe not I really didnt poll them to find out, it just appeared that way.

 

[frederic]

Design #57 - Much better!

Four hours of conference calls has proven useful

Anyway, new design.

Notes:
1. Offices/cubes/conference room still upstairs.
2. I have not included soundproofing nor bass traps, just
the overall shape/shell of the rooms.
3. Access from room to room seems reasonable.
4. Added a second bathroom for in-studio client use. I know its
off the live room, but there really isn't a better way of putting
it anywhere else. I don't expect it to be used when the
recording light is on.
5. I deleted the tank (its now red) since its been confirmed its
currently a 1000 gallon boat anchor.
6. ISO A - has a midi controller in there, and on the back wall
there are racks for endless midi gear expansion.
7. ISO B - while not rectangular, its not idea and I will be
tweaking the top wall a little to change the angles a bit.
8. I decided after all that one of the loading docks should be
accessable, so I've walled it off and put a pair of double doors.
I can double this wall if necessary... I might wait and see. The
Metal garage door doesn't seem to rattle or flex in the wind
so maybe that area would be a decent airlock. I can decide
that during construction. Adding another wall and two doors
is not a big deal in the scope of things.
9. I have the larger console room more exposed to the live room,
something that allows better communication between artists
and engineers. I haven't drawn the windows into either of the
control rooms, thats still a "to do".
10.And to comply with local law, the emergency fire door is
exposed and available for panic exists. It makes the most
sense to have the live room against this door thats where in
theory, the majority of the people would be at any given
moment.
11.The Equipment room is no longer humungous and overbearing.
This makes for more usable space yet gross overkill in the
amount of "U" available for recording gear and other devices
that can be remotely controlled.
12.Studio B will have outboards and compressing gear built into
the console table, equalling 15U total.
13. Studio A (large) will have 32 U (16 per side) built above the
bass trips next to the sofa. Not exactly the most ideal
location but its acceptable, as most of the outboards we'll
be using will be midi controlled.

Whew!

I think I covered every room I wanted except for a kitchen. There is enough space upstairs on the 2nd floor to put a small kitchenette for client/employee convienence, with a small table or two. Just something to be friendly.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hi frederic, looks good to me,, but it wouldn't meet Tiltle 24. Maybe New Jersey doesn't enforce it. They do here. Anyway, good luck.
fitz