Mics to stay away from.

[littledog]

So, because it's a new mic which costs $8000, what makes it better than say a vintage Telefunken Elam 251, which is around $18,000 or a U47, which is also anywhere from $6000-$8000 depending on it's condition.

Be specific.

The Escalade isn't necessarily better than a Lexus either. It's just the popular fad amongst a particular social group.

Same with the Sony. Not better - just in style for a while.

 

[PhilGood]

A peltier element. ;P

I buillt a C800 copy without the peltier element and it works just fine!

I used a KK67 style capsule, which is what sony copied for the C800G. The 6AU6 tube really doesn't get THAT hot. Total cost for my build is $350. And it performs quite well.

I should start a line of copies! Well, Sony would probably sue my ass off, so...no I probably shouldn't.

Anyway, there's no real mistery to that mic aside from the peltier, which could be considered a nice feature, but overkill none the less.

 

[BigRay]

I'm from the south and I'll tell you that southern hospitality is a sham.

I dont consider florida part of the southern region. geographically it is, but floridians definitely do not act like typical southerners in VA, NC, AL, TN, etc.

Southern Hospitality..wonder why that word came about...maybe because of southern hospitality??you sure as hell never hear that about places up north. Southern folks have charm in spades. That is a well known fact, and is easily proven.

FL doesnt count. it is a melting pot of people from all over...has none of the southern charm.

 

[stetto]

I'd like to have a pair of high end condenser omnis that cost about $2000 each. Instead, I've located the best mikes I can find that I can also afford.

I'd also love to have a cabinet full of top-of-the-line mics, even just a couple. A pair of AKG 414s, a U87 or two, sure...Unfortunately "the best I can afford" is an arbitrary statement at best. If ya got a hundred bucks and different advice coming from six or sixteen different guys, you're gonna get what ya get and deal with it. If ya got $5000 to burn, your perspective is going to be WAY different on what "the best I can afford" is. I had a hundred bucks, and I made a poor choice with the Behri, but I learned a lot about using a parametric in the process that I might not have with a more stably responsive mic.

My RE-55s cost less than $100 each and the SM-80 capsules were about the same. I don't think it makes a bit of sense to waste time on crappy sounding mikes. You will learn something with good mikes or bad, but you will learn what things really sound like and how to record them better with good mikes.

You have to define "good mics" here. Do you mean the $2000 condenser omnis? I have a pair of Joemeek JM27's that I paid $60 for...For the pair, that is...These SDC condensers are sweet, quiet, very forgiving on the bottom, and reproduce what I'm recording with no EQ needed. I consider them "good mics". I'm sure that in some (even many) cases $$=quality, but I also have no doubt that in the case of more than a few brands the bulk of the hefty price is a surcharge on the trademark...

Now, if learning is what you want and you want to be well rounded, you will ultimately want to end up with at least one dynamic cardioid (say, SM-57), one SDC (say, SM-81), one LDC multi-pattern condenser (uhh, you name it, too many choices) and one figure-8 ribbon mike and maybe a true omni (little 1/4" cheapies if nothing else). Better yet, two of each and a copy of the New Stereo Soundbook, since you just might want to know something about stereo recordings.

Someone at the level you're suggesting here would likely not care to invest in all that gear off the bat. The learning that I'm talking about has to do with someone who has gear and perhaps an inapropriate mic and could use a deeper understanding of his signal chain's capabilities. If he finds good mics from the start, great! But, judging from the cornucopea of opinions and advice here, just what are the odds?

I can't see any point to purposely choosing inferior tools. There are some good, cheap examples of several of these categories, and it makes sense to me to use all the information available to find ones that best serve your purposes.

And I don't advocate actively seeking out "bad" mics just to make life hard on yourself, my point was that, should you wind up with an unsuitable mic and have no alternatives, an opportunity to enrichen your knowledge of the capabilities of your sidechain gear arises.

I also think there is a lot of benefit when learning to have an accurate omni mike (better yet a pair of them) because it offers you the chance to really listen and learn what things really sound like at various mike placements as a reference so that when you use other mikes you have that point of reference to compare to. Otherwise, you're just kind of flailing about.

Cheers,

Otto

Can't agree more...

Eric

 

[kidvybes]

FL doesnt count. it is a melting pot of people from all over...has none of the southern charm.

...Dude, there's nothing "charming" about that confederate flag...those of us who currently live in the south, but have had the benefit of living in other regions of the US as well as outside the US, are well aware of the significance displaying that "symbol"...get over yourself...you're either uninformed or well aware...I suspect the latter...

 

[stetto]

Uh oh, I smell a swastika/southern cross/hammer&sickle controversy comin' on...pleeeeeze take it to the cave...or backchannel...

Eric

 

[ofajen]

And I don't advocate actively seeking out "bad" mics just to make life hard on yourself, my point was that, should you wind up with an unsuitable mic and have no alternatives, an opportunity to enrichen your knowledge of the capabilities of your sidechain gear arises.

I can't recommend using signal processing to make up for crappy mikes. That's just piling it up higher and deeper. Better to sell the crap and buy the best low-cost mikes you can. Another big reason why I recommend heavy use of omni mikes is that they give you a realistic appraisal of the sound of your instruments, voice, etc. Oftentimes, the best thing to do to improve the sound is to improve what goes into the mike, perhaps by tweaking or replacing an instrument, not putzing around with a whole bunch of flavors of mike. Again, you run the risk of turd polishing. A more flavored mike adds to the uncertainty for an inexperienced recordist. Better to have the option to strip away the flavor and hear the truth.

Cheers,

OTto

 

[BigRay]

...Dude, there's nothing "charming" about that confederate flag...those of us who currently live in the south, but have had the benefit of living in other regions of the US as well as outside the US, are well aware of the significance displaying that "symbol"...get over yourself...you're either uninformed or well aware...I suspect the latter...

Who gives a rats ass what you suspect?Or if it is charming? If I wanted to post a racist symbol, there are plenty that I can use that wont leave anything to the imagination. Get over yourself, or do whatever it takes to cope, like smoke another bowl and listen to Marley, bruh

I dont mince words, I explained what it means to me. If you cant stomach that, then tough. Hell, if I WERE racist, I sure wouldnt be discreet about it.

 

[kidvybes]

If I wanted to post a racist symbol, there are plenty that I can use that wont leave anything to the imagination.

...and I bet you're well acquainted with ALL the options...nuff said.

...and thanks for the negative rep...real mature dude...

 

[jaykeMURD]

What really chaps my ass is the way MXL markets the 990. They call it a Large Diaphragm mic, when in reality it's the same capsule as the 991 or 603, which are SDC mics.

Misleading to the new-comer, and could easily deter a n00b homerec enthusiast.

The 990 can be used in some situations, but for a budget-minded pursuant, it's really not a very good piece to have as the "all-around" mic.

 

[tamoore]

I didn't 'stay away' from the MXL990....

I got two mics(990/991) for 90 bucks, and tracked my whole album with them...

When people (even musicians) hear my tracks, they don't say..... "Hey - sounds great - but I wished you hadn't used a crappy mic like that."

Now, to be sure - it can sound a bit harsh at times. But, I know this, and can account for it. On my voice, I actually like the little bit of harshness - but, that's just me.

For the home recording guy with $1000 to spend on new gear, one can almost always make better use of the budget to impact the finished product by buying several other pieces of gear/plugs rather than a single microphone.

Just my 2cents.

 

[KEVIN1600]

I've got 4 cheap LCD's at home. 1-SP B-1, 1- MXL 1006, and 2 MXL 990's. The 990's are the worst of the lot but I wouldn't throw them away. I use a Shure SM-58 on stage and it works great! I'd like to get that Studio Projects tube mic (TB-3?) does anyone have one? Check out the gig pictures from last weekend.

 

[stetto]

I can't recommend using signal processing to make up for crappy mikes.
OTto

I think that there's a difference between "crappy" and "difficult". I wouldn't advocate dependancy on processing gear as part of the routine either. I still have the Berhinger, still find uses for it, though not for vocals so much. I don't consider it a crappy mic, but in certain instances (like vocals), it taught me a lot about my outboard gear and what it can do to compensate, which that gear is ultimately designed to do...

Sometimes you have to make do with what you have...

Eric

 

[Phildo]

I got a freebie MXL V67 (the shiny Green & Gold one) with my Tascam 1084. Tried it, didn't like it at all and stuck it in the darkest corner of my mic drawer...

...cut to...

...a drunken session a few months later. I dig the "Bling" mic out of the drawer and show it to my friend. He sings with a deep baritone - bit like Ian Curtis crossed with Nick Cave, but in tune - and so we knocked a song out and recorded him with the MXL.

Best sound I've ever heard from him. Just goes to show that it's "horses for courses". What's not right for one may be perfect for another.

I've since found it sounds excellent up against my 1961 Watkins Guitar combo.

 

[dkelley]

You should stay away from large diaphragm condensor microphones when recording vocals.

The recommended distance is 12~18". A pop filter helps the vocalist keep that distance consistently.

That's very true 90% of the time. I MUST say however that I've been recording one particular female vocalist, a ballady type singer with a voice that varies dramatically between soft/intimate and powerful, open full long notes, doesn't have great mic technique (none actually, just stays still, I'm working on that with her but it's screwing up her singing so I'm generally letting her work how she performs best).

For her voice, it sounds AMAZING up close and personal into a cad m179 with no eq. That mic can handle her dynamics, a focusrite compressor handles her volume changes beautifully, and it sits very well in the mix, just a little forward where she should be in this case. She has a warm voice but it just doesn't get captured well with LDC far away, I also do like her voice on SDC up close but my fav is the m179 up close (3-6" away, that's just how much she moves around, not an intentional position variation on my part).

Everyone has their own thing that works. A good pop screen helps a lot of course, and a bit of de-essing for her. oh yea, and she's plossive free in her singing which helps a ton with the up close and personal micing.

Don

 

[BigRay]

the only mic I have ever hated is the neumann km184. brittle, harsh , thin, frail, garbage.

I honestly would not take them if someone left em outside my door. HATE them.

 

[chessrock]

Who gives a rats ass what you suspect?Or if it is charming? If I wanted to post a racist symbol, there are plenty that I can use that wont leave anything to the imagination. Get over yourself, or do whatever it takes to cope, like smoke another bowl and listen to Marley, bruh

I dont mince words, I explained what it means to me. If you cant stomach that, then tough. Hell, if I WERE racist, I sure wouldnt be discreet about it.

Big RAY-cist?



I doubt it. Big Dumbass Ray is just too dumb to know any better. Probably thinks the guys with the big white sheets over their heads are just wearing cool ghost costumes for halloween.

.

 

[TaperChuck]

I never found anything an EV PL6 sounded good with. It was the first microphone I ever sold.

 

[undergroundtoon]

Who gives a rats ass what you suspect?Or if it is charming? If I wanted to post a racist symbol, there are plenty that I can use that wont leave anything to the imagination. Get over yourself, or do whatever it takes to cope, like smoke another bowl and listen to Marley, bruh

I dont mince words, I explained what it means to me. If you cant stomach that, then tough. Hell, if I WERE racist, I sure wouldnt be discreet about it.

All of that charm-filled southern talk sure is making me hungry Cournal.

Any Southerner, "Well Hello Dare. How may I help you my good sir."
Me, "Yeah, I'll take a ten peice family bucket extra crispy."

And to stay on topic every Nady mic sucks!

 

[BigRay]

Now now chess... You mentioned calling a truce. Play nice.

Actually I am from the heart of KKK country, so I know what one looks like. But no..I am not racist in the least..unless you call being anti-noodling music racist..

Big RAY-cist?



I doubt it. Big Dumbass Ray is just too dumb to know any better. Probably thinks the guys with the big white sheets over their heads are just wearing cool ghost costumes for halloween.

.