Microphones & Pre-Amps! Help! :)

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BadBwai

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Hello fellow members! I'm in dire need of some assistance.
I'm quite new at this Hardware stuff, but software wise, I'm pretty good, so without due:
I need a Decent Microphone and Audio Interface or Pre-Amp.

I'm not to certain on what the different is with an Audio Interface & Preamp, but I've read a Pre-Amp is a standalone and cannot be plugged into a PC directly. I don't want that.

I want to be able to record into my DAW (Adobe Audition) with a Microphone, USB is not an option.

Basically..
I'm looking for a Good Microphone & an Audio Interface I believe, correct me if I'm wrong.
Something sufficient enough to give clean and crisp recordings (I'm very precise about quality.)
My budget is around 500$ (Total).

I've been asking around a lot but no one is giving me good answers to what I need, so please please please!
Any help will be HIGHLY appreciated, thank you so much in advance.
 
Your best bet would probably be an audio interface with built in microphone Preamps.
Something like the Tascam US series would maybe suit your needs and since you qoute your budget in USD i guess your in america.
You might well get a decent mic secondhand and get better value as the american market is full of well priced entry level mics from such places as guitar centre.
Good luck.
maybe mxl v67g or the like would be within your budget?
 
Microphones are tools. Some are more versatile than others. Some are better at some things than others. I'm looking for the best tool I can get for $100. Which one do you think I should buy? Some people have suggested a good crosscut saw, but others say a hammer is the way to go. So- tell us about the job, and maybe we can help you select a tool. Record what? Where? To do what with it once it's recorded?

BTW- your statement regarding preamps vs interfaces is essentially correct. A preamp raises the weak mic level signal to the stronger line level, so that it can be recorded. Not all line levels are created equal, however.
-10dBV is consumer line level, which is put out by most stereo systems. This would be the "line level" output on a CD Walkman, for instance. +4dBu is "professional" line level, what most mic preamps put out. Some pieces of equipment have a switch so that they can handle either, or separate inputs for +4 and -10. Although not always true, line inputs with RCA jacks are usually -10 and line inputs with 1/4" jacks, like a guitar cable, are usually +4. Note that what a guitar puts out is neither one. That's high impedence instrument output, sometimes called "high-Z", or "instrument level".

A computer interface is a device that first changes mic or instrument level signals into +4 line level (in other words, a preamp), converts it to a digital signal, and then transfers it to a computer, usually by USB or firewire. They usually also have line level inputs. So- an interface is basically one or more preamps with inputs for various signals, whether mic, line, or instrument level, and an analog to digital converter. It usually also has monitoring provisions, often including analog line outs for monitor speakers, a headphone output, and vu meters, or at least clip (overload) indicator lights. For relatively affordable, I like this one:

Line 6 POD Studio UX2 | 8thstreet.com | Call 1-800-878-8882 | Most Orders Ship Free!

But there are many others by M-Audio, Motu, and others.

As far as the mic goes, that entirely depends on the mission. There simply isn't one universal, all purpose mic. Mics are classified according to the electrical principles by which they operate, the size of the diaphragm, if they have one, and what polar patterns they generate- in other words, what directions do they pick up sound best in, and what happens to the sound when it's not coming from straight on? Mics are also defined by their frequency output. Do they augment or attenuate certain frequency bands, and how much? Also what is their upper and lower frequency limits, and what happens when a source exceeds those limits? Furthermore mics vary in sensitivity and some generate subtle distortion, which may be flattering to certain sounds, like airbrushing a photograph. This is called "warm" when you like it, and "muddy" when you don't. Mics can also make their own noise, called "self-noise", some more than others. Noise, unlike distortion, is always bad, and for some uses, it matters more than for others. Once we've waded through all that, price and build quality is massively variable. I can show you an omnidirectional, solid state, small diaphragm condenser mic for under $50, and another for about $3000. On paper, they look the same. It takes a lot of green paper before you really understand the difference.

But the good news is- there are lots of very usable cheap mics out there, lots more than there used to be, in the day. So tell us what you intend to record with it, and then we can start really confusing you. No matter what you need the mic for, there are dozens of options, and we all have our favorites. You'll also notice that the poster above mentioned that he thinks you are American. He is in England. For him, the choices may be very different, due to differences in availability, tariffs, and currency exchange rates. Where you live matters, and I will often make different recommendations to people, based on where they live. Your turn- more info, please.
 
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In terms of Audio Interface (AI) and mic choices, it would help everyone to know what you plan to record, i.e just vocals, some acoustic guitar, drums etc and how many things you intend to record at once i.e acoustic guitar and vocals at the same time may require 2 mic preamps built into the AI whereas if you plan to record drums you will probably need at least 4 mic preamps. Also, whether you have a preference to either a USB or Firewire AI.

With that in mind, there are a plethora of reasonably priced AI's available, such as the Presonus Audiobox and Audiobox 44VSL, the Maudio Fasttrack range, the Tascam US range (as kip said), and the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, Saffire 6 USB, and Saffire Pro 14. All have their pro's and con's but all will do the job and are within a similar price bracket (although, i say this as a UK based guy so have no idea of the US $ prices).

Again, assuming you want to record at least vocals, as Kip said the MXL V67g and V67i get solid reviews, and things like the Rode NT1a, sE X1, and Avantone CK6 are all very useable. if you can, it's well worth a trip to the local music store to try some mic's out. Failing that, there are plenty of audio clips available online although i would suggest to take all online clips with a pinch of salt as they will represent recorders source in their room through their gear so may sound very different in front of you in your room through your gear
 
Microphones are tools. Some are more versatile than others. Some are better at what thing. I'm looking for the best tool I can get for $100. Which one do you think I should buy? Some people have suggested a good crosscut saw, but others say a hammer is the way to go. So- tell us about the job, and maybe we can help you select a tool. Record what? Where? To do what with it once it's recorded?

BTW- your statement regarding preamps vs interfaces is essentially correct. A preamp raises the weak mic level signal to the stronger line level, so that it can be recorded. Not all line levels are created equal, however.
-10dBV is consumer line level, which is put out by most stereo systems. This would be the "line level" output on a CD Walkman, for instance. +4dBu is "professional" line level, what most mic preamps put out. Some pieces of equipment have a switch so that they can handle either, or separate inputs for +4 and -10. Although not always true, line inputs with RCA jacks are usually -10 and line inputs with 1/4" jacks, like a guitar cable, are usually +4. Note that what a guitar puts out is neither one. That's high impedence instrument output, sometimes called "high-Z", or "instrument level".

A computer interface is a device that first changes mic or instrument level signals into +4 line level (in other words, a preamp), converts it to a digital signal, and then transfers it to a computer, usually by USB or firewire. They usually also have line level inputs. So- an interface is basically one or more preamps with inputs for various signals, whether mic, line, or instrument level, and an analog to digital converter. It usually also has monitoring provisions, often including analog line outs for monitor speakers, a headphone output, and vu meters, or at least clip (overload) indicator lights. For relatively affordable, I like this one:


But there are many others by M-Audio, Motu, and others.

As far as the mic goes, that entirely depends on the mission. There simply isn't one universal, all purpose mic. Mics are classified according to the electrical principles by which they operate, the size of the diaphragm, if they have one, and what polar patterns they generate- in other words, what directions do they pick up sound best in, and what happens to the sound when it's not coming from straight on? Mics are also defined by their frequency output. Do they augment or attenuate certain frequency bands, and how much? Also what is their upper and lower frequency limits, and what happens when a source exceeds those limits? Furthermore mics vary in sensitivity and some generate subtle distortion, which may be flattering to certain sounds, like airbrushing a photograph. This is called "warm" when you like it, and "muddy" when you don't. Mics can also make their own noise, called "self-noise", some more than others. Noise, unlike distortion, is always bad, and for some uses, it matters more than for others. Once we've waded through all that, price and build quality is massively variable. I can show you an omnidirectional, solid state, small diaphragm condenser mic for under $50, and another for about $3000. On paper, they look the same. It takes a lot of green paper before you really understand the difference.

But the good news is- there are lots of very usable cheap mics out there, lots more than there used to be, in the day. So tell us what you intend to record with it, and then we can start really confusing you. No matter what you need the mic for, there are dozens of options, and we all have our favorites. You'll also notice that the poster above mentioned that he thinks you are American. He is in England. For him, the choices may be very different, due to differences in availability, tariffs, and currency exchange rates. Where you live matters, and I will often make different recommendations to people, based on where they live. Your turn- more info, please.

Wow! Thank you so much for taking the time to explain all that, really really really helped. Sorry for the late reply, been a bit busy. Anyways, I'll answer what I can!

I live in Canada, & I'm going to be using the Microphone for Recording Pop/R&B & possibly rap. It's going to be use strictly for vocals, no instruments.
My price range is around 300$ for that.

The Audio Interface, channels don't matter since I'll only be using a Microphone. Again, price range around 300$. My EQing will mostly be done on my PC, so features doesn't really matter. Just something that can get my vocals into my PC with quality, I'm very picky on quality. (Extremely)

If you can reccommend anything, that would be awesome!
If you require more info, please ask & I'll be happy to answer.

Again, thank you so much for the previous answer, best I've gotten & I've asked a lot! :)
 
Wow! Thank you so much for taking the time to explain all that, really really really helped. Sorry for the late reply, been a bit busy. Anyways, I'll answer what I can!

I live in Canada, & I'm going to be using the Microphone for Recording Pop/R&B & possibly rap. It's going to be use strictly for vocals, no instruments.
My price range is around 300$ for that.

The Audio Interface, channels don't matter since I'll only be using a Microphone. Again, price range around 300$. My EQing will mostly be done on my PC, so features doesn't really matter. Just something that can get my vocals into my PC with quality, I'm very picky on quality. (Extremely)

If you can reccommend anything, that would be awesome!
If you require more info, please ask & I'll be happy to answer.

Again, thank you so much for the previous answer, best I've gotten & I've asked a lot! :)

OK- First, trust me, the day will come when 2 channels will be better than one, like when you decide to do stereo recording with 2 mics, or when you want to load a stereo recording from an analog source. You think you don't need 2 channels, *but you will*. Next, however picky you may be about sound quality, you have to walk before you can run. A top of the line preamp could be over $1500 per channel. A pro studio quality A-D converter could be $2000 to $3500. Then you get a $3000 main vocal mic, and what will you prove? That you *used* to have a lot of discretionary income, that the room you are recording in is *not* a professional recording studio, that you *aren't* a professional recording engineer, and the talent *isn't* Whitney Houston.

Like I said, all of these things are tools, and right now, the mission is to be able to record *something*, so that you can begin learning how to be a tracking engineer. Then, you can begin the long process of learning to be a mixing engineer. Maybe- if your hearing is good enough, you are a little gifted, and you work hard enough, you might eventually become a mastering engineer. By then, you'll own the expensive gear above, and the acoustically designed rooms to put it in. Right now, your budget allows you to get a reasonable quality interface and one or two usable mics. Those are the tools you now get to learn how to use.

As far as the interface, I believe the Line 6 UX2 is as good as any of them, but a Focusrite, MOTU, or M-Audio model will do the job you want to do about as well.

Regarding mics, vocals are most often recorded with a large diaphragm condenser mic, a dynamic mic, or a ribbon mic, which is a form of dynamic mic that uses a thin metallic ribbon to pick up the sound, rather than a gold-spluttered mylar diaphragm. Essentially, condensers and dynamics are the yin and yang of microphones. They are the tools a tracking engineer uses. One is not better than the other. From your point of view, condensers have the advantage of having higher output, so that you don't have to turn up your cheap (not $1000+ per channel) preamps as much. Often, when cheap preamps are cranked up, they make a lot of noise. Dynamics have the advantage of bang for buck. Really good ones simply cost less money than the best condensers. Ribbon mics are very versatile, but really good ones are pricey, and they need a preamp with balls (meaning high gain with low noise), just like dynamics. There are some cheap Chinese versions, such as the Cascade Fathead, which gets pretty good reviews, but I would personally wait on that until you have some serious bucks sunk into a preamp. My advice would be to get a good cheap condenser and a good cheap dynamic, so you can start learning what each of them is good for. In the greater scheme of things, the difference between a $100 mic and a $200 mic is like the difference between a 35 cent pencil and a 50 cent pencil.

As far as the dynamic, everybody and his brother will tell you to get a Shure SM57. There are any number of cheap dynamics that I prefer for entry level. I'm a big fan of the discontinued (but still easy to find) AKG D770, I can live with Sennheiser e835, and I'm not kidding, the Behringer XM8500 ($25 brand new) really doesn't suck like it should for the price.
As far as the condenser goes, I'd just get a Marshall Electronics MXL V67g:

Marshall Electronics MXL V67G | 8thstreet.com | Call 1-800-878-8882 | Most Orders Ship Free!

and a brand new D770-ebay- buy it now for $76

AKG D 770 Professional Dynamic Microphone | eBay

Of course you can spook around on ebay in Canada and see what you can find, but those 2 mics, both brand new, and the Line 6 interface would bring you in under $400US with enough to get a mic stand, a cable or two, and a pop filter, which you will be needing. And there's no reason you can't buy them used, especially the dynamic. They are really hard to kill. I generally woudn't recommend any used ribbon mic, unless I know and trust the seller. They are pretty fragile. That's my best advice on how to allocate the money. You'll never be sorry you own those two mics. When one doesn't quite fit, there's a good chance the other one will. If you want to be a lumberjack, you need a saw *and* an axe.
Good luck. We'll be there for you.
 
OK- First, trust me, the day will come when 2 channels will be better than one, like when you decide to do stereo recording with 2 mics, or when you want to load a stereo recording from an analog source. You think you don't need 2 channels, *but you will*. Next, however picky you may be about sound quality, you have to walk before you can run. A top of the line preamp could be over $1500 per channel. A pro studio quality A-D converter could be $2000 to $3500. Then you get a $3000 main vocal mic, and what will you prove? That you *used* to have a lot of discretionary income, that the room you are recording in is *not* a professional recording studio, that you *aren't* a professional recording engineer, and the talent *isn't* Whitney Houston.

Like I said, all of these things are tools, and right now, the mission is to be able to record *something*, so that you can begin learning how to be a tracking engineer. Then, you can begin the long process of learning to be a mixing engineer. Maybe- if your hearing is good enough, you are a little gifted, and you work hard enough, you might eventually become a mastering engineer. By then, you'll own the expensive gear above, and the acoustically designed rooms to put it in. Right now, your budget allows you to get a reasonable quality interface and one or two usable mics. Those are the tools you now get to learn how to use.

As far as the interface, I believe the Line 6 UX2 is as good as any of them, but a Focusrite, MOTU, or M-Audio model will do the job you want to do about as well.

Regarding mics, vocals are most often recorded with a large diaphragm condenser mic, a dynamic mic, or a ribbon mic, which is a form of dynamic mic that uses a thin metallic ribbon to pick up the sound, rather than a gold-spluttered mylar diaphragm. Essentially, condensers and dynamics are the yin and yang of microphones. They are the tools a tracking engineer uses. One is not better than the other. From your point of view, condensers have the advantage of having higher output, so that you don't have to turn up your cheap (not $1000+ per channel) preamps as much. Often, when cheap preamps are cranked up, they make a lot of noise. Dynamics have the advantage of bang for buck. Really good ones simply cost less money than the best condensers. Ribbon mics are very versatile, but really good ones are pricey, and they need a preamp with balls (meaning high gain with low noise), just like dynamics. There are some cheap Chinese versions, such as the Cascade Fathead, which gets pretty good reviews, but I would personally wait on that until you have some serious bucks sunk into a preamp. My advice would be to get a good cheap condenser and a good cheap dynamic, so you can start learning what each of them is good for. In the greater scheme of things, the difference between a $100 mic and a $200 mic is like the difference between a 35 cent pencil and a 50 cent pencil.

As far as the dynamic, everybody and his brother will tell you to get a Shure SM57. There are any number of cheap dynamics that I prefer for entry level. I'm a big fan of the discontinued (but still easy to find) AKG D770, I can live with Sennheiser e835, and I'm not kidding, the Behringer XM8500 ($25 brand new) really doesn't suck like it should for the price.
As far as the condenser goes, I'd just get a Marshall Electronics MXL V67g:

and a brand new D770-ebay- buy it now for $76

Of course you can spook around on ebay in Canada and see what you can find, but those 2 mics, both brand new, and the Line 6 interface would bring you in under $400US with enough to get a mic stand, a cable or two, and a pop filter, which you will be needing. And there's no reason you can't buy them used, especially the dynamic. They are really hard to kill. I generally woudn't recommend any used ribbon mic, unless I know and trust the seller. They are pretty fragile. That's my best advice on how to allocate the money. You'll never be sorry you own those two mics. When one doesn't quite fit, there's a good chance the other one will. If you want to be a lumberjack, you need a saw *and* an axe.
Good luck. We'll be there for you.

Thank you soooo much for replying. That was really good advice and I will listen! You helped me like crazy there.
I deal with music a lot, so I know my way around the basics pretty good, with mixing and all.
I've done some research and I've found two mics in which I like, the Shure SM7B & the Shure KSM32, yeah I've bumped up my budget!
Can I hear you're opinion one these if you have experience with them?

I've also came down to the Audio Interface I'll be getting, which is gonna be the EMU 0404 most likely, which is around $200 I believe.

Now with those prices, are their any Mics & Interfaces I could possibly get that's better that those I've chosen?
From all the research I did, I think they'll make me quite happy, but before I make a move on anything, I'd rather ask you because you seem amazing at these things! :)

Again, thanks for before & for your time!
 
I'm not familiar with the EMU unit, so I have no comment on that. Regarding the mics, the KSM32 is an excellent, versatile, Swiss Army knife, good for many applications. It has a 3/4" diaphragm, intermediate between a small diaphragm, usually about 1/2", and a large diaphragm, usually about 1". However, that standard isn't acoustically based. A better definition would be that a large diaphragm mic has a diameter equal to or larger than the wavelength of the highest frequency it is meant to reproduce, in this case, 20kHz, about .678". Large diaphragms are more often used for vocals, but that is not a hard and fast rule. In technical terms, the KSM32 is called a "mid-size diaphragm mic", but acoustically, it is really a large diaphragm mic. Beyond the technical jargon, it's a very good mic, and should serve you well. The SM7b is simply one of the best dynamic mics ever made. I use it as my main live vocal mic. It has very low output, however, so it may stretch the preamps in the EMU to their limits. It needs 60db of clean gain, and 65db would be better. If that becomes a problem, here's a cost effective solution:

Cloud Microphones Cloudlifter CL-1 | Sweetwater.com

IMHO, those are very good choices, ones I might very well have suggested if a larger budget had been stated. Good luck!
 
I'm not familiar with the EMU unit, so I have no comment on that. Regarding the mics, the KSM32 is an excellent, versatile, Swiss Army knife, good for many applications. It has a 3/4" diaphragm, intermediate between a small diaphragm, usually about 1/2", and a large diaphragm, usually about 1". However, that standard isn't acoustically based. A better definition would be that a large diaphragm mic has a diameter equal to or larger than the wavelength of the highest frequency it is meant to reproduce, in this case, 20kHz, about .678". Large diaphragms are more often used for vocals, but that is not a hard and fast rule. In technical terms, the KSM32 is called a "mid-size diaphragm mic", but acoustically, it is really a large diaphragm mic. Beyond the technical jargon, it's a very good mic, and should serve you well. The SM7b is simply one of the best dynamic mics ever made. I use it as my main live vocal mic. It has very low output, however, so it may stretch the preamps in the EMU to their limits. It needs 60db of clean gain, and 65db would be better. If that becomes a problem, here's a cost effective solution:

IMHO, those are very good choices, ones I might very well have suggested if a larger budget had been stated. Good luck!

Thank you so much sir, you are awesome! I've now set my mind on the KSM32 as my choice of purchase, and further down the road I'll probably grab a SM7B also.
You've helped me a ton & I really really appreciate it! Couldn't ask for a better answer.
Again, thank you so much & take care! =)
 
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