Microphone question

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rtrags

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I am new to home analog recording and im looking at getting a tascam 424 (probably on ebay). I have recorded line in to my computer using an amp simulator and it really doesnt sound very good.

What I am unsure of is what type of mics to get. I would like to get two for stereo recording and I dont want to spend more than $70-80 on the pair. I am essentially lost when it comes to the differences between ribbon, dynamic, condenser mics. I am planning on recording acoustic and electric (both guitar and bass). Could anyone recommend mics or point me in the right direction? thanks
 
I hate people that ignore the question and go off in a different direction....but that's exactly what I'm going to do.

I think you'd be going in the wrong direction to try and get two mics that could be used as a stereo pair for $70-80. You'd be far better off buying a single better (but still cheap--great mics cost more than your budget) microphone. In your case, although it's a bit of a cliche, I'd probably start with one SM57. It's not the perfect mic for anything but will do a credible job on any of the things you want to record. The only one of the three I'd normally do in stereo is the acoustic guitar anyway...and many record even that in mono by choice.

For the potted description of three types of mic:

Dynamic mics convert acoustic energy to electricity by moving a coil of wire (attached to a diaphram) around inside the field of a permanent magnet to generate electricity. They are basically a loudspeaker in reverse. As such, they are rugged, and resistant to moisture--but the output is low and they aren't very sensitive and can be lacking in detail. However, they are very useful for live work, miking loud things like amps, and so on.

Condensor mics convert sound to electricity by having a diaphragm action as one plate of a capacitor--sound vibrations change the distance between the two plates of the capacitor. This is why they need a supply of phantom power to work but, because they don't rely on generating their own electricity, they can be very sensitive and detailed in their sound reproduction.

Ribbon microphones are more similar to a dynamic but work by moving a ribbon of metal (usually corrugated) in a magnetic field (as opposed to a diaphragm connected to a coil). The ribbon itself is connected electrically to the microphone's output. Ribbon mics tend to respond to the pressure gradient rather the the sound pressure and are often a bi-directional (figure of 8) pickup pattern. Others use internal baffles to control the pickup direction. Ribbon mics can give a very detailed sound but the ribbon needs to be hung very loosely to provide a bass response which used to make them very fragile. More modern materials get around this problem--and some modern ones have a built in pre-amp which works off phantom power.

Hope all this helps,

Bob
 
If you weren't happy about the sound using your line-in on your computer, you probably won't be thrilled with the sound from a CASSETTE recorder, either!
Save up some money, get a USB audio interface and a SM57 - don't forget you will need a cable and a mic stand, too.
 
Thanks for the quick replys and the help. I checked out the sm57 and it seems to be what I am looking for.

As far as the line in recording goes I have just been running my guitar straight into a line 6 gear box then into my computer. With no air moving it just sounds very dead. I understand that analog can have richer sound quality than digital and this is what Im hoping to take advantage of with a cassette 4 track. Am I correct in thinking this?
 
rtrags said:
Thanks for the quick replys and the help. I checked out the sm57 and it seems to be what I am looking for.

As far as the line in recording goes I have just been running my guitar straight into a line 6 gear box then into my computer. With no air moving it just sounds very dead. I understand that analog can have richer sound quality than digital and this is what Im hoping to take advantage of with a cassette 4 track. Am I correct in thinking this?
Click to expand...

No!

The "analog" being referred to is reel-to-reel tape.

You're gonna get much better performance from DAW-based recording than from 4-track cassette.
 
I agree 100% with c7sus.

The "richer" sound of a cassette deck could probably better be described as "muddy" and "lacking high frequencies".

Your idea of recording with a microphone rather than with an emulator is probably good but recording to a cassette is not such a good one. You're better off spending the money on even a very cheap USB interface and running the mic into your computer.

Reel to reel tape running at 7.5 or 15 inches per second is one thing, an old cassette deck is something else again.
 
I thought that cassettes were analog. Are cassettes not just a size reduction in reel to reel technology?
 
Size reduction, yes. However, in this case size matters--cramming 4 tracks onto a tape only 1/8th of an inch wide and running that tape at 1 7/8th inches per second instead of a quarter inch tape running at 4 or 8 times the speed is a compromise that doesn't do nice things for your music. Not exactly accurate, but it's a bit akin to a low bitrate MP3 file compared to a CD/uncompressed wave file.
 
rtrags,

If price is an issue (sounds like it is), probably your biggest bang-for-the-buck is an USB mic like the Samson Q1U for $49. I HIGHLY recommend computer recording over a cassette set-up. The quality (and flexibility now) difference is just so huge that unless you are going for some certain effect or sound, cassette tape will not be up to the task. Also, you can make use of the leverage possible in price using, say Audacity or (better yet) Reaper with a USB mic or two.

If you can afford it at some point, I highly recommend the Shure SM-81 for your acoustic guitar. I use little else on mine.

Good luck!

Ken
 
Ok, I think this is my plan now. Im going to buy a mic (which i would need anyway) and try that out with my current line 6 gear box and adobe audition (which i have been using). If I am still not satisfied Ill pick up a 424.

thanks for the help and feedback
 
jake578 said:
rtrags,

If price is an issue (sounds like it is), probably your biggest bang-for-the-buck is an USB mic like the Samson Q1U for $49. I HIGHLY recommend computer recording over a cassette set-up. The quality (and flexibility now) difference is just so huge that unless you are going for some certain effect or sound, cassette tape will not be up to the task. Also, you can make use of the leverage possible in price using, say Audacity or (better yet) Reaper with a USB mic or two.

If you can afford it at some point, I highly recommend the Shure SM-81 for your acoustic guitar. I use little else on mine.

Good luck!

Ken
Click to expand...

USB mic or two??? Dood... bad advice...
 
For 70-80 dollars, getting a pair of stereo mics will just end up being a waste of money. To my knowledge, 2 condenser mics for 80 dollars would just be pure rubbish. :x
 
jimmys69 said:
USB mic or two??? Dood... bad advice...
Click to expand...

I think its a good idea. I started with a Q1U and it gave decent ( for a beginner) results. Its a cheap way to start off and find out if you like music recording .
 
It's a cheap way to start off but a total dead end. If you invest in a half decent interface and a microphone, then you can purchase more, better microphones for specific tasks without scrapping the first one.

Of course, this is before we get into the issues of quality (the A-D converters and USB chips used in mics tend to be pretty cheap) and reliability (you need only skim this forum to see how many people have driver issues with USB mics) and I'd never suggest anybody spend their hard-earned cash on a USB mic. Yeah, some people have had good experiences....but many haven't and I couldn't advocate any USB mics in good faith.

Bob
 
What would be the digital equivalent to a tascam 424? Or a digital 4 track between $100-120 (avg cost of a 424 on ebay)
 
rtrags said:
What would be the digital equivalent to a tascam 424? Or a digital 4 track between $100-120 (avg cost of a 424 on ebay)
Click to expand...

A proper audio interface. They start at about $60 (Lexicon Alpha). There are portable recorders just within your budget, but you'll get way more bang for the buck using an interface with your computer.
 
+1 for what Boulder Sound Guy said.

The cheapest four track digital recorder worth having (Zoom H4n) is more than double your budget--and you'll still want to put the data into your computer anyway for mixing and processing.
 
Another vote for going the interface and mic route. The 4 track cassette, in the long run, will be a dead end that you'll arrive at quickly.

Craigslist can be your friend....nothing wrong with used. It's a great, budget-friendly way to get started. My startup costs that include a set of used M-Audio AV40 monitors, a used M-Audio Fast Track II interface, a new M-Audio 49 key MIDI keyboard and a fully licensed copy of Mixcraft 5 software by Acoustica for less than $300. I've already accumulated several mics over the years so, I didn't have that expense.

A basic beginners setup but, since I am a beginner, it's perfect for me and gives me something to get started learning on for short money. Seriously, before you spend any money....think about it.
 
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