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Mastermindzz
New member
Has anyone ever used these plugins with N track???
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Rusty K
New member
Mastermindzz,
Hey what does the modeler do...? Are they "freebies"? I like free but I'm always in search for mic/vocal help.
Rusty K
Hey what does the modeler do...? Are they "freebies"? I like free but I'm always in search for mic/vocal help.
Rusty K
D
DarkFriend
New member
Both..
I've used both, and found them to be useless.
In my opinion, there's no way you are going to be able to record a vocal on a SM57 and make it sound like it was recorded on a Neumann or other expensive condenser mic.
As far as autotuners go for vocals, they are a pain in the rear to set up so they work the way they are supposed to. The best solution, is have a vocalist that can sing in tune. Problem solved..
I've used both, and found them to be useless.
In my opinion, there's no way you are going to be able to record a vocal on a SM57 and make it sound like it was recorded on a Neumann or other expensive condenser mic.
As far as autotuners go for vocals, they are a pain in the rear to set up so they work the way they are supposed to. The best solution, is have a vocalist that can sing in tune. Problem solved..
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Rusty K
New member
DarkFriend,
Thanks man...doesn't sound like anything I need.
You know a problem I have is seeing all these specialized tools and all the different names. Hell I don't know whether they would be something that I could use or not. Even if they are free plugs I really hate taking the time to dowload install and try them...I don't mind if it sounds like something I could use. I know I'm at a disadvantage since I don't particularly like hanging out in the "gear" stores...never have so I really don't have a clue about what some of these tools do. I know it's my own fault.
And the waste of money on stuff you thought you needed.
Does anyone know of some sort of resource that might list most of the products described..or at least general catagory descriptions of what they do. There is so much out there!
Seems like a good project if it doesn't already exist, especially appreciated by relative newbies like myself.
Rusty K
Thanks man...doesn't sound like anything I need.
You know a problem I have is seeing all these specialized tools and all the different names. Hell I don't know whether they would be something that I could use or not. Even if they are free plugs I really hate taking the time to dowload install and try them...I don't mind if it sounds like something I could use. I know I'm at a disadvantage since I don't particularly like hanging out in the "gear" stores...never have so I really don't have a clue about what some of these tools do. I know it's my own fault.
And the waste of money on stuff you thought you needed.
Does anyone know of some sort of resource that might list most of the products described..or at least general catagory descriptions of what they do. There is so much out there!
Seems like a good project if it doesn't already exist, especially appreciated by relative newbies like myself.
Rusty K
D
DarkFriend
New member
I think this forum is the best place to learn about something. You can search for keywords, so chances are, someone else has already asked a question concerning it.
I usually go to the product's website and read up on it before installing a new plugin. When it comes down to it, I probably only use 5 plugins consistently. I mean, just how many compressors can one studio have? Find 1-2 good ones, and stick with those that work. Same for reverbs and EQs. I'm now into the Waves plugins, and they have a plugin for everything. I might just uninstall everything else and only use those..
I usually go to the product's website and read up on it before installing a new plugin. When it comes down to it, I probably only use 5 plugins consistently. I mean, just how many compressors can one studio have? Find 1-2 good ones, and stick with those that work. Same for reverbs and EQs. I'm now into the Waves plugins, and they have a plugin for everything. I might just uninstall everything else and only use those..
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Rusty K
New member
DarkFriend,
Well it sounds pretty much like how I go about it but I find precious little explaining exactly what the plug does. Of course the standard stuff, EQ, comp., etc., I have and use consistently but I'm really keen on trying to find vocal tools. I have a high frequency stimulator that I like and apply but I'm still looking.
Thanks...for your help..I'll search this place.
Rusty K
Well it sounds pretty much like how I go about it but I find precious little explaining exactly what the plug does. Of course the standard stuff, EQ, comp., etc., I have and use consistently but I'm really keen on trying to find vocal tools. I have a high frequency stimulator that I like and apply but I'm still looking.
Thanks...for your help..I'll search this place.
Rusty K
D
DarkFriend
New member
Rusty:
Seems that working with vocals almost as much to do with technique as with effects. By this I mean stuff like recording the vocal twice, having three tracks of vocals each panned differently and each with a different EQ, putting reverbs and delays panned to the sides while a clean vocal is in the middle, etc.
Then again, some incredible songs are done where there is one single vocal without effects panned in the dead center, and that's it! No reverbs, choruses, exciters, and the like..
Seems that working with vocals almost as much to do with technique as with effects. By this I mean stuff like recording the vocal twice, having three tracks of vocals each panned differently and each with a different EQ, putting reverbs and delays panned to the sides while a clean vocal is in the middle, etc.
Then again, some incredible songs are done where there is one single vocal without effects panned in the dead center, and that's it! No reverbs, choruses, exciters, and the like..
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Rusty K
New member
Hey DarkFriend,
Damn you sound like someone that could help me. I'm having a devil of a time getting my own voice recorded. I have a good voice on pitch usually but not a lot of nuance so as a result I usually sound better in the live situations...rather than in the studio where the nuance is a plus. I'm better on energy rock n roll tunes or classic r&b some classic country but I'm not a crooner. The slow stuff is the hardest.
I haven't tried your techniques..do you have any more ideas/things to try to pass along to me. I know better equipment would help...i.e. mics..a better preamp but I've got to work with what I've got.
Feel free to email me if you wish or here is fine too.
Thanks DF,
Rusty K
Damn you sound like someone that could help me. I'm having a devil of a time getting my own voice recorded. I have a good voice on pitch usually but not a lot of nuance so as a result I usually sound better in the live situations...rather than in the studio where the nuance is a plus. I'm better on energy rock n roll tunes or classic r&b some classic country but I'm not a crooner. The slow stuff is the hardest.
I haven't tried your techniques..do you have any more ideas/things to try to pass along to me. I know better equipment would help...i.e. mics..a better preamp but I've got to work with what I've got.
Feel free to email me if you wish or here is fine too.
Thanks DF,
Rusty K
D
DarkFriend
New member
Vocals..
What is your mic/preamp setup?
One tip/trick that might help.. For the slower stuff with more vocal nuances, try getting right up to the mic, instead of recording from a foot away like you might for rock vocals. Get a really hot level, and mark the spot on your floor with some tape so you don't "stray" from the good spot and proper levels. The closer you are to the mic, the less you have to "belt it out" and it makes singing the expressive stuff easier. For the close stuff, sing through your head, rather than from your gut (if that makes sense).
Other stuff you can do to add "interest" to your vocals. Record two leads. One from close up to the mic, one from a foot or so away. Then mix the two in your recording. Use n-Track's volume envelopes to make one vocal take the "lead" and then smoothly move into the other so they go back and forth.
I'm also a big fan of having three of the same lead vocal tracks. The first track has a small room reverb about 60% panned left with no dry signal. The second track has a short 1-10ms slapback delay on it and is panned 60% right. The third track is totally dry, but with some compression and high frequency exciter added to it and panned dead center. This gives a full, rich vocal but with a lot of definition because the vocal effects are not cluttering up the vocal.
Another trick. Try recording your vocal listening to different parts. In other words, if your song has guitar, bass, drums, organ, and strings, try recording the vocal listening to just the drums and bass. Then try the vocal with just the drums and strings. When your ears hear different things, you will sing differently.
Another trick: Try recording vocals with just a tiny volume of music in your headphones. Then try it with the mix cranked up. Again, when your ears hear different things, you will sing differently.
Also, try taking one ear of your headphones off completely when tracking vocals. That can help you to better hear what you are doing.
Check out the vocals at this Mp3 site: http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/244/uru.html
I'm not a huge fan of this type of music, but the mixing tricks they use on this woman's vocals are too cool. When you hear something neat, try to reproduce it.
Unfortunately for the cashless, decent equipment is a nice thing for recording vocals. At first, I was recording vocals with a Shure SM58, and then bought my first condenser mic (AT3035). The differences are like night and day. If you have any troubles singing through a cheap mic, a decent condenser will really let you hear mistakes or less-than-perfect parts. But, plenty of home recordists get good vocal results from an SM57 (I have before). A great vocalist through an SM57 will sound better than a lousy vocalist through a $7500 mic any day.
There are a lot of vocal tips and techniques. Just do a search and you'll find quite a few.
Hope these ideas help you to get the vocal takes you are looking for..
What is your mic/preamp setup?
One tip/trick that might help.. For the slower stuff with more vocal nuances, try getting right up to the mic, instead of recording from a foot away like you might for rock vocals. Get a really hot level, and mark the spot on your floor with some tape so you don't "stray" from the good spot and proper levels. The closer you are to the mic, the less you have to "belt it out" and it makes singing the expressive stuff easier. For the close stuff, sing through your head, rather than from your gut (if that makes sense).
Other stuff you can do to add "interest" to your vocals. Record two leads. One from close up to the mic, one from a foot or so away. Then mix the two in your recording. Use n-Track's volume envelopes to make one vocal take the "lead" and then smoothly move into the other so they go back and forth.
I'm also a big fan of having three of the same lead vocal tracks. The first track has a small room reverb about 60% panned left with no dry signal. The second track has a short 1-10ms slapback delay on it and is panned 60% right. The third track is totally dry, but with some compression and high frequency exciter added to it and panned dead center. This gives a full, rich vocal but with a lot of definition because the vocal effects are not cluttering up the vocal.
Another trick. Try recording your vocal listening to different parts. In other words, if your song has guitar, bass, drums, organ, and strings, try recording the vocal listening to just the drums and bass. Then try the vocal with just the drums and strings. When your ears hear different things, you will sing differently.
Another trick: Try recording vocals with just a tiny volume of music in your headphones. Then try it with the mix cranked up. Again, when your ears hear different things, you will sing differently.
Also, try taking one ear of your headphones off completely when tracking vocals. That can help you to better hear what you are doing.
Check out the vocals at this Mp3 site: http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/244/uru.html
I'm not a huge fan of this type of music, but the mixing tricks they use on this woman's vocals are too cool. When you hear something neat, try to reproduce it.
Unfortunately for the cashless, decent equipment is a nice thing for recording vocals. At first, I was recording vocals with a Shure SM58, and then bought my first condenser mic (AT3035). The differences are like night and day. If you have any troubles singing through a cheap mic, a decent condenser will really let you hear mistakes or less-than-perfect parts. But, plenty of home recordists get good vocal results from an SM57 (I have before). A great vocalist through an SM57 will sound better than a lousy vocalist through a $7500 mic any day.
There are a lot of vocal tips and techniques. Just do a search and you'll find quite a few.
Hope these ideas help you to get the vocal takes you are looking for..
B
bdemenil
New member
Antares auto-tune does a pretty good job. If you don't have the option of getting a better take, it is worth using. It can make something that sounds horribly out of tune sound bearable.
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Rusty K
New member
bdemenil,
Is the Antares auto tune a pitch corrector? I've tried the "Voice Tweaker" and realized that I really didn't need it. If I sing off pictch I usually retrack.
DarkFriend,
I can't thank you enough for your suggestions. Some of them I've discovered while working.
I've recorded in the studio on really good mics as well as the SM57's etc. Right now I have Sennheiser 855e that I use for stage and have been trying out at home just because the noise rejection in my puter room is fantastic. I also have used a Marshall MXL2001 condenser that I'm not that happy with but I'm about to go back to it for another try. I go from the condenser into a "Blue Tube" and limit it with a "Nano Compressor". I pick up noise with the condenser in the room and also with the "Blue Tube" so I have to use noise reduction which can get tricky sometimes.
I get vocal complements on stage often but I have never been able to get a satisfactory outcome, at least to my ear, in the studio. Usually it's due to budget restraints. You go in and get the instruments down first then the vocals just when you are running out of cash.
I'm convinced I need to find a formula specific to my voice that will put it in the "best light". I think it's a formula that would work in most any recording situation. One complaint I've always had in studio situations is that I know it would help me to be able to hear something closer to a finished mix as I am laying my vocals but usually you get a dry vocal back in your headphones with the engineer saying..."Oh we'll add the effects when we mix". Like you said a singer plays off what they hear. I've always liked effects on my voice they help me by giving me something to play off of. Make any sense?
Thanks again I'm now going to transcribe your suggestion.
Rusty K
Is the Antares auto tune a pitch corrector? I've tried the "Voice Tweaker" and realized that I really didn't need it. If I sing off pictch I usually retrack.
DarkFriend,
I can't thank you enough for your suggestions. Some of them I've discovered while working.
I've recorded in the studio on really good mics as well as the SM57's etc. Right now I have Sennheiser 855e that I use for stage and have been trying out at home just because the noise rejection in my puter room is fantastic. I also have used a Marshall MXL2001 condenser that I'm not that happy with but I'm about to go back to it for another try. I go from the condenser into a "Blue Tube" and limit it with a "Nano Compressor". I pick up noise with the condenser in the room and also with the "Blue Tube" so I have to use noise reduction which can get tricky sometimes.
I get vocal complements on stage often but I have never been able to get a satisfactory outcome, at least to my ear, in the studio. Usually it's due to budget restraints. You go in and get the instruments down first then the vocals just when you are running out of cash.
I'm convinced I need to find a formula specific to my voice that will put it in the "best light". I think it's a formula that would work in most any recording situation. One complaint I've always had in studio situations is that I know it would help me to be able to hear something closer to a finished mix as I am laying my vocals but usually you get a dry vocal back in your headphones with the engineer saying..."Oh we'll add the effects when we mix". Like you said a singer plays off what they hear. I've always liked effects on my voice they help me by giving me something to play off of. Make any sense?
Thanks again I'm now going to transcribe your suggestion.
Rusty K
B
bdemenil
New member
autotune is a pitch corrector. If you can do a retake, and get the pitch right, all the better. If that's not an option, auto-tune might be your tool of last resort. It is especially usefull on harmonies and choruses where there is less attention to an individual voice - this is because it does change the voice's characteristics slightly - sometimes making it sound a bit unnatural. But alltogether, it is a pretty remarkable tool.
D
DarkFriend
New member
Other ideas for tracking..
Rusty:
Is your computer system beefy enough to use n-Track's "Live" feature? If so, you can track your vocals with a lush reverb to assist in getting the right "feel."
If your computer can't handle the "Live" feature, you can try a few things:
First, record one take of the vocal. Then add a reverb to it, but remove the dry signal completely, so you are only left with the wet reverb signal. Then record the "good" take of vocals and you'll be hearing the reverb from the previous take. Assuming you sing and phrase the song the same way each time, it will sound like you are tracking with reverb.
Another possibility is to use two mics when tracking. One mic will be the mic that records your vocal. The other mic will go into an amp or PA system where you can add whatever effects to it you want. If you position the PA or amp properly, it won't get picked up by the mic recording your vocals.
The last idea, is to use the two mic setup above, but run the output of the PA or amp with the reverb into one channel of your headphone amp. That way, you are mixing the recorded music with the live reverb vocal.
These ideas may seem like a lot of work just to hear your voice with some effects, but hey - they work! My recording setup won't allow me to track vocals with effects, so I have to improvise.
Good luck..
Rusty:
Is your computer system beefy enough to use n-Track's "Live" feature? If so, you can track your vocals with a lush reverb to assist in getting the right "feel."
If your computer can't handle the "Live" feature, you can try a few things:
First, record one take of the vocal. Then add a reverb to it, but remove the dry signal completely, so you are only left with the wet reverb signal. Then record the "good" take of vocals and you'll be hearing the reverb from the previous take. Assuming you sing and phrase the song the same way each time, it will sound like you are tracking with reverb.
Another possibility is to use two mics when tracking. One mic will be the mic that records your vocal. The other mic will go into an amp or PA system where you can add whatever effects to it you want. If you position the PA or amp properly, it won't get picked up by the mic recording your vocals.
The last idea, is to use the two mic setup above, but run the output of the PA or amp with the reverb into one channel of your headphone amp. That way, you are mixing the recorded music with the live reverb vocal.
These ideas may seem like a lot of work just to hear your voice with some effects, but hey - they work! My recording setup won't allow me to track vocals with effects, so I have to improvise.
Good luck..
R
Rusty K
New member
DF,
IG Thunderbird, 255Mb Ram....I'll give her a try. You've given me a lot to work on.
I just listened to "BitterSweet" ummm I know a few guitar players that would love to wail on that tune. I listened to all...excellent!
Is that you or are you the engineer or both?
Luck to you,
Rusty K
IG Thunderbird, 255Mb Ram....I'll give her a try. You've given me a lot to work on.
I just listened to "BitterSweet" ummm I know a few guitar players that would love to wail on that tune. I listened to all...excellent!
Is that you or are you the engineer or both?
Luck to you,
Rusty K
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