S
si_eats_pie
New member
probly the wrong place but hey. ne1 no what the best way of micing up an upright piano with a condensor mic 2 make it sound gd
Michael Jones
New member
I have a large grand that I record all the time. That's quite a different animal from an upright though.
There's some good info on uprights here:
http://www.audiotechnica.com/using/mphones/worship/miking.html
and here:
http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/images/Piano 2.gif
Hope those help.
As always, positioning is going to be critical, so you'll have to experiment, but those will give you a good starting point.
There's some good info on uprights here:
http://www.audiotechnica.com/using/mphones/worship/miking.html
and here:
http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/images/Piano 2.gif
Hope those help.
As always, positioning is going to be critical, so you'll have to experiment, but those will give you a good starting point.
H
Harvey Gerst
New member
I wrote this for Electronic Musician a while back:
Pianos and Mics - No Simple Solutions
Just as with most acoustic stringed instruments, the bulk of the sound is produced by the sounding board to which the strings are attached. In guitars and violins, it's the top of the instrument; in pianos, it's the sounding board. You don't mic the picks, the bows, or the hammers - they produce very little sound.
There are several considerations when placing mics for piano recording. Foremost, will the instrument be recorded by itself, or with other instruments playing at the same time? Those two situations require different mic techniques. Is it a grand piano or an upright piano? Each requires different mic techniques. Finally, where will the recording take place? That may also require different mic techniques.
If the purpose of the recording is accuracy, and you're micing a solo concert grand piano, then you'll need some good, small diaphragm condensor mics, placed some distance from the piano, usually around 6 to 8 feet away. You can use an x-y setup for cardioids, or a wider spaced ORTF setup with omnis or cardioids.
The piano lid is used to direct some of the sound towards the mics. IF the piano is part of a group of instruments, you can get better isolation by micing the underside of the instrument, using a sightly wide spacing with omnis or cardioids. Mics placed inside the top of the instrument can also be used, but it's harder to achieve a good balance or isolation since the piano lid will also reflect sounds from the other instruments into the mics.
Large diaphragm mics can also be used, but the response changes as the sound enters from different angles and the larger mics add coloration (which can sometimes add an unexpected richness to the sound).
Upright pianos should be miked from the back of the instrument, but try to avoid having the soundboard too close to a wall. The distance from the wall will create a standing wave which will interfere with the sound. If the piano has to be near a wall, angle the piano so that it doesn't sit parallel to the wall. Be especially attentive to a ringing sound when micing upright pianos.
This ringing is caused by resonances within the piano, and usually can be solved or reduced by moving the mics around till you find a dead area, free of the ringing. Just as with a concert grand, close micing is not advised, but since an upright piano is usually part of a group, it's not possible to mic from a distance and still have isolation.
To sum it up, first choices for recording a piano would be small omni or cardioid condensor mics, but don't be afraid to try large condensors, ribbons, or dynamic mics (if that's all you have). Mic from a distance if possible. Second choice would be under the piano, and finally, from the top of the piano, but watch out for ringing and reflections from that position.
Pianos and Mics - No Simple Solutions
Just as with most acoustic stringed instruments, the bulk of the sound is produced by the sounding board to which the strings are attached. In guitars and violins, it's the top of the instrument; in pianos, it's the sounding board. You don't mic the picks, the bows, or the hammers - they produce very little sound.
There are several considerations when placing mics for piano recording. Foremost, will the instrument be recorded by itself, or with other instruments playing at the same time? Those two situations require different mic techniques. Is it a grand piano or an upright piano? Each requires different mic techniques. Finally, where will the recording take place? That may also require different mic techniques.
If the purpose of the recording is accuracy, and you're micing a solo concert grand piano, then you'll need some good, small diaphragm condensor mics, placed some distance from the piano, usually around 6 to 8 feet away. You can use an x-y setup for cardioids, or a wider spaced ORTF setup with omnis or cardioids.
The piano lid is used to direct some of the sound towards the mics. IF the piano is part of a group of instruments, you can get better isolation by micing the underside of the instrument, using a sightly wide spacing with omnis or cardioids. Mics placed inside the top of the instrument can also be used, but it's harder to achieve a good balance or isolation since the piano lid will also reflect sounds from the other instruments into the mics.
Large diaphragm mics can also be used, but the response changes as the sound enters from different angles and the larger mics add coloration (which can sometimes add an unexpected richness to the sound).
Upright pianos should be miked from the back of the instrument, but try to avoid having the soundboard too close to a wall. The distance from the wall will create a standing wave which will interfere with the sound. If the piano has to be near a wall, angle the piano so that it doesn't sit parallel to the wall. Be especially attentive to a ringing sound when micing upright pianos.
This ringing is caused by resonances within the piano, and usually can be solved or reduced by moving the mics around till you find a dead area, free of the ringing. Just as with a concert grand, close micing is not advised, but since an upright piano is usually part of a group, it's not possible to mic from a distance and still have isolation.
To sum it up, first choices for recording a piano would be small omni or cardioid condensor mics, but don't be afraid to try large condensors, ribbons, or dynamic mics (if that's all you have). Mic from a distance if possible. Second choice would be under the piano, and finally, from the top of the piano, but watch out for ringing and reflections from that position.
G
geekgurl
New member
Harvey is definitely a master at this sort of thing; I am definitely a hack. However, since I've learned a lot from Harvey and have experimented extensively with my upright piano, I will share my experiences/successes and perhaps it will apply to your situation.
The style of music I do is piano-driven singer/songwriter type stuff. Think Cold Play, earlier Tori Amos, Carole King, Elton John. There are other instruments, but piano is a driving force.
Now that we have that out of the way, here's what I do:
2 MXL 603s (pretty decent wide cardioid small-diaphragm condensers) in an ORTF pattern (for definition of the technique, search for Harvey's big mic thread ... title has keywords "diaphragm" and "polar patterns" and was started by Chris F ... that oughta get ya goin'). I like spacing the mic heads about 20cm apart from each other for my piano and room; experiment with yours (different stereo imaging with different distances). Anyway, the mics sound best a little further than 5 feet from the piano. I mic the back. I adjust the height of the mics to eliminate ring (but my piano is pretty decent -- a dark-sounding conservatory upright -- which makes it less ringy and rinky-dink sounding to begin with). And I pull the piano away from the walls. The one wall it "faces" is at a diagonal, not parallel, to avoid standing waves.
Hope this helps ... cuz really, this is all I know on the subject.
Cheers,
gg
The style of music I do is piano-driven singer/songwriter type stuff. Think Cold Play, earlier Tori Amos, Carole King, Elton John. There are other instruments, but piano is a driving force.
Now that we have that out of the way, here's what I do:
2 MXL 603s (pretty decent wide cardioid small-diaphragm condensers) in an ORTF pattern (for definition of the technique, search for Harvey's big mic thread ... title has keywords "diaphragm" and "polar patterns" and was started by Chris F ... that oughta get ya goin'). I like spacing the mic heads about 20cm apart from each other for my piano and room; experiment with yours (different stereo imaging with different distances). Anyway, the mics sound best a little further than 5 feet from the piano. I mic the back. I adjust the height of the mics to eliminate ring (but my piano is pretty decent -- a dark-sounding conservatory upright -- which makes it less ringy and rinky-dink sounding to begin with). And I pull the piano away from the walls. The one wall it "faces" is at a diagonal, not parallel, to avoid standing waves.
Hope this helps ... cuz really, this is all I know on the subject.
Cheers,
gg
D
DJL
Self Banned
That article should be a sticky. 
MarkoPolo
New member
The biggest problem I find is the damn sustain pedal being heard
when you have a person that uses in constantly
when you have a person that uses in constantly
C
CanopuS
Amateur music since 1847
Me too, I need to grease it up a bit. This is a good thread, keep the ideas coming. I have a pair of C4's and in the next few days I'm going to need to mic an upright, so any information is great. Thanks
D
DJL
Self Banned
I think Harvey pretty much already summed it up. This thread should be a sticky.
D
DJL
Self Banned
Bump
Marik
Pro Microphone Design
I believe the up-right is a very challenging instrument to record well and agree it needs a lot of experiments. The hardest part is to overcome its 'boxy' sound and to get nice bass. The sound you get is very much depends on the size and condition of the piano and as many recording engineers--that many micing techiques. About a month ago I posted about my experience here:
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=112550&highlight=up+right+piano
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=112550&highlight=up+right+piano
D
DJL
Self Banned
Thanks for the link.Marik said:
