mic'ing tiny toms

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Squiksilvery

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Hi,

got a kit to record, with 2 tiny toms above the kick drum. If I put mics on top, they are going to get hit, as the drums are so small. I want to close mic them to reduce bleed. They have no skins on the bottom.... perhaps point a 57 into the bottom of each drum? If so, where exactly?

cheers
 
Close micing does not mean the mic has to be 1 inch from the head. As a matter of fact, it always sounds better to have the mic 2-3 inches away or even 4-5. The sound needs to develop before it reaches the mic anyway. If they are single headed its ok to put the mics up in the shell, but it will sound pretty throaty.
 
I know you are saying you want to close mic them, but have you recorded on this kit before? I find that my overhead picks up the tiny toms very well because of how cutting the sound is from smaller toms
 
Very true. Also, what some refer to as bleed, others refer to as ambiance. The drum kit isn't a bunch of small instruments. It's one big one! The concept that the overheads are only to pick up the cymbals or that you need to isolate between drums and mics is an incorrect one. You use the overheads for a stereo picture and then bring in the close mics to fatten things up.
 
invert, yes! unforgotten - cheers

Good point about the drums been 1 instrument. I want to spread the "parts" out with a bit of pan hence needing a bit of separation.

I'll try some 57s 3 inches out the bottom of the toms. I expect the transient volume to be very high there, so the gain on the mics will be low, which will help reduce "bleed".

I agree very much with using ambient/room mics primarily and close mics as a suppliment.

cheers
 
Job done, SM57s 2 inches out the bottom of the drums, inverted, and they sound great.
 
PhilGood said:
The concept that the overheads are only to pick up the cymbals or that you need to isolate between drums and mics is an incorrect one.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say 'incorrect' I'd say "different" or "weird" or "isolationist" but incorrect... It depends on what results you're looking for. I have heard and recorded kits that are not 'as one instrument' from the get go, leaving me to wonder if the owner actually has any concept of dynamics or shading, or any hearing left.
 
Micing smaller toms from the bottom can be a really nice thing. Smaller toms seem to project to the overheads better than larger toms, but having a bottom mic can really help with adding some "beef" back to them in the mixdown phase. Of course part of this depends on what style of music is being played and what kind of drum sound is desired.

Also, I would not say that mics always sound better at 5" instead of 1". If we were talking about a single drum being played and one mic to capture it with no processing, I might be more inclined to agree. However, if we are talking about a fully mic'ed kit and a thick rock sound, close mics (ala 1 or 2 inches off the tom head) may net a much more usable drum mix. It depends on too mnay factors to be able to make one all encompassing statement in my opinion. I do understand the reasoning though and in many ways agree with it, at least the principle of it.

I also noticed that someone suggested inverting the phase of the mics that would be coming in from the bottom of the toms. This seems to be something that people throw around a little too much in my opinion. One thing that is important to realize is that unless you are recording the kit with ONLY one mic, there will always be phasing. In fact, if indoors, there will still be some phasing captured by even a single mic through reflections. Anyhow, when micing up a kit, things like phasing are a fact of life no matter what method you use to mic it. There are certain principles which can help to battle UNWANTED phasing effects, but I personally make it practice to never reverse the polarity of a channel until I have listened to it. By listening to it I mean IN the mix, or at least in the drum mix, which can be done during tracking. Things like snares that are double mic'ed will most of the time end up with the polarity reversed either at the top mic or at the bottom mic, but which mic gets reversed is based on which combination sounds better to my ears. If toms are ONLY mic'ed from the bottom, there is a good chance that the polarity does not need to be reversed. I am not saying don't flip the polarity, but maybe listen first and ask yourself why you are reversing the polarity. If your answer to that question is anything of a scientific nature, then you are already lost. Make the decision with your ears, and not the textbook:)
 
Xstatic, finally someone who thinks on my wavelenght...

and its all about wavelength with phasing. The overheads are generally placed by judgement rather than science. The distance from the snare compared to the distance between the snare and the top snare mic, will determine the nature of the phasing. So, as you say, it may sound more "real" with the snare top mic inverted (opposite to the overhead). and without complicated science you can't measure it, except for using ones ears!

As a rule of thumb I have the overheads just the the drummer's side of the kit so that all the sides of the drums etc that are hit (top skins, beater side of the kick drum etc) generally face the overheads. Then any mics that are on the opposite side of the kit are inverted (such as kick mics, bottom snare - and the mics under the little toms). I then compare each track with the overheads one at a time and experiement with phase but I mostly find that the above rule of thumb works (when looking to get a "real" sound).

In response to the earlier paragraph: Yes it is a compromise between bleed and natural sound, when choosing mic distances. Closer = more controll but less of a natural sound.

Also, you "text book" comment is key. Sound On Sound a couple of months back had a big article of phase - I gave up reading it. Too much text book stuff, and not enough emphasis on creativity or just using EARS!

cheers Xstatic
 
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