Micing drums, the AFTERMATH

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coolsoundman

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Hey Folks,

In a previous post, I described my set-up and where I was wanting to try it out, in a closet. Well today, I did try the set-up and did a little recording to hear what it would sound like. So far the snare and hi-hat came out pretty good, the over head was alright, but it picked up on the other parts of the set. I guess that would be called bleeding. I put one mic in between the toms, those sounded pretty good, but still there is some bleeding still. It was my kick that sound pretty bad, kind of like a little of a distorted sound.
I used the sm57 for the hi-hat/snare, another sm57 for the kick, and one sm58 for the toms, and another sm58 for the over head. I did a lot of dampening on the toms, cause they would ring really bad, same for the snare. I'm just trying to get it where when I use four different channels to be four separate tracks. How do I get rid of the bleed throughs?

I have a clip of my test run. I want to go ahead and post here so see what you guys might think. Maybe some more suggestions or ideas. Or if you can, let me know how I can send a mp3/wav file too.

Thanks for your input.
 
I have a Tama, model I don't remember, but it's a six piece set. The way that I have it set up is as a four piece set. Umm, no floor tom and no third tom. I really don't have a link to the sound file, but I did take a picture of my set up. This is the closet get-up, so it was pretty small to barely fit the whole drum set.
 
ok, heres the pic, see what you think?
 

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coolsoundman said:
ok, heres the pic, see what you think?
Click to expand...

In my opinion, recording in a closet will sound boxy. From the looks of the pics, the additional muffling also makes for a boxy, dead sound, especially the bass drum. You need a condenser for the overhead, and it's SUPPOSE to pick up the rest of the kit. It's not bleed, it's the job of the overhead. (There's also no such thing as isolation when it comes to drums. Everything has to work in concert with everything else.) It's not just for cymbals. If it doesn't sound good, the kit isn't tuned well. Back the overhead up, though. It's too close. The other mics look OK, except I can't see where you have the BD mic. If it's close to the head, that's where the distortion might be coming from, or you've got the drum tuned too low.

Are you going for a 70s sound? Really dead? Jeeez, that's alot of tape. I don't put ANY on my toms or snare and record in a fairly open room.
 
Here's a link I posted for someone else, but it might show how muffling isn't the way to get a good tom sound. There is NO muffling on this song on any drum except a small pillow in the bass drum. (disclaimer: the intro is 4 takes layered to acheive the sound. Pardon the levels, *really hot*, we never finished this project and this is the only MP3 I have. It's recorded on my home rig.)

 
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muffling

Yeah, defintiely take some of that muffling off of the drums. Ive found that muffling rings do a better job at muffling overtones while allowing the drum to still have some character than duct tape anyways. Rings are pretty cheap too. I actually think that you should try using fewer mics in that closet. maybe try one on the bass and one overhead (the snare mic may turn out to be necessary, but i think the SM58 on the toms in unneeded for sure). Experiment taking the clothes out of there and opening up the space a bit too.
 
msmales555 said:
Yeah, defintiely take some of that muffling off of the drums. Ive found that muffling rings do a better job at muffling overtones while allowing the drum to still have some character than duct tape anyways. Rings are pretty cheap too. I actually think that you should try using fewer mics in that closet. maybe try one on the bass and one overhead (the snare mic may turn out to be necessary, but i think the SM58 on the toms in unneeded for sure). Experiment taking the clothes out of there and opening up the space a bit too.
Click to expand...


OK, I'm going to say this clearly so I'm not misunderstood. DON'T MUFFLE! There's not a pro drummer alive who uses muffle rings in the studio. Duct tape is used, but maybe in inch of it, if even that. Muffling is a gimmick by manufacturers to make you think your drums will sound like that studio recording that you love. It's horrible for the sound. In the studio, it's the signal path that gets that deep warm sound, not muffling! If you have a problem with overtones, then for God's sake, learn to tune drums. If the sound is totally out of control, you need new heads.

BTW, muffling is OK for live situations where you need to keep the volume quiet, but it's a severe no-no in the studio.
 
i used to muffle the tom a bit till i realized how much of a deeper and full round sound i get when there open and alive
i just have a small pillow for my kick and a really thin ring for my snare

oh by the way i made a mic for my kick out of a 5 3/4" radio shack speaker and i plug it into a di box it sounded amazing
 
tubesrawsom said:
i used to muffle the tom a bit till i realized how much of a deeper and full round sound i get when there open and alive
i just have a small pillow for my kick and a really thin ring for my snare
Click to expand...

EXACTLY!!!!
 
coolsoundman said:
ok, heres the pic, see what you think?
Click to expand...


yeah man, get those drums out in the open. When you start playing drums in a space like that, it makes for a very stale recording. Give em room to breathe :D.


As for the mics, I'd put them closer to the heads...it helps reducing bleed through. As for the 58s, here's my thing:


58s are good live vocal mics, but as tom mics, I avoid them like the plague because of thier omni pattern. You're better off with mic's like the 57, the cardiod pattern is gonna help you get a better and more directed sound.
 
duct tape? ouch, that's hard to remove and always leaves crud. I only use masking tape b/c it's made to come off - masking is temporary, in most cases.

I will use a long cloth to drape around a tom, so it's adjustable, but very little is on the head. For snare, I have a heavy, thick, wide mouse pad that is heavy enough to sit on it and be moved over or even off while I'm playing if I feel like it. I use a very light ring, there's way too much nasty high for me and I'm a newbie and have a hard time tuning so it does help. Then for practicing, forget it, muffle as much as you want, that's diff.

I would say for recording, first just try 2 overheads to get some stereo first. I just did that and it really helped the sound. It'll already do stereo for your HH, and toms, leaving you with snare and kik if you need it, I think I do, since I can't play. But for someone good, they might even be able to vary the dynamics of those according to how it is thru the overs, maybe.

I also thought I had to absorb all the sufaces in my room, but I didn't, just around the kick and the corners - and I'm next going to take away from kik, b/c I got comments that it sounded bad.
 
LRosario said:
58s are good live vocal mics, but as tom mics, I avoid them like the plague because of thier omni pattern. You're better off with mic's like the 57, the cardiod pattern is gonna help you get a better and more directed sound.
Click to expand...
A 57 and a 58 are the same capsule, they are both cardioid. The only difference is the ball.

Back to the drums. Take all that stuff out of the bass drum. Take the drums out of the closet. Take all the tape off of the drums and tune them. The overhead needs to be farther away.
 
PhilGood said:
Here's a link I posted for someone else, but it might show how muffling isn't the way to get a good tom sound. There is NO muffling on this song on any drum except a small pillow in the bass drum. (disclaimer: the intro is 4 takes layered to acheive the sound. Pardon the levels, *really hot*, we never finished this project and this is the only MP3 I have. It's recorded on my home rig.)

Click to expand...

Nice technique. That drum sound fit the song excellently!
 
teainthesahara said:
Nice technique. That drum sound fit the song excellently!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the compliment! I can still hear my own slop in it though. I have a tendancy to have notes lag slightly behind while playing to a click, so layering masks that a little. The micing technique was before the stuff I learned from this forum and some pros I know. I'm getting better results now.
 
To Coolsoundman, I could see from the picture that becouse the 'range of covering of the SM58', and in that position, would facilitate picking up frequencies from the other gears,avoid the SM58 for recording on top of the set,(unless you wanted to do overhead with it).Gerry Zaragemca
 
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i agree with Phil, open the drums up. i tried the muffle ring thing for maybe a week in my entire life of drumming, then i had to take them off. there is nothing like a nicely tuned drum in a nice sounding room... :)
 
muffling

Ok, I took all of your advise and I finally took the drums out of the closet. I won't be able to do any recording until the weekend, and I do agree on one of the things you guys have told me to do. That is to stop the muffling. When I'm playing out on a gig, I like to have my drums ring. If I put my set out in the open room, how do I go about micing and what other ways would I use to help control the over rings coming from the drums?
 
PhilGood said:
OK, I'm going to say this clearly so I'm not misunderstood. DON'T MUFFLE! There's not a pro drummer alive who uses muffle rings in the studio. Duct tape is used, but maybe in inch of it, if even that. Muffling is a gimmick by manufacturers to make you think your drums will sound like that studio recording that you love. It's horrible for the sound. In the studio, it's the signal path that gets that deep warm sound, not muffling! If you have a problem with overtones, then for God's sake, learn to tune drums. If the sound is totally out of control, you need new heads.

BTW, muffling is OK for live situations where you need to keep the volume quiet, but it's a severe no-no in the studio.
Click to expand...
AMEN.
Muffling drums is like having sex with your sister, it just aint right!!!
Tuning drums is very overlooked. I suggest that all drummers sit down at their kit for as long as it takes and learn to tune them. It is actually alot of fun when you get into it!
 
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