micing a kit

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oz_fenda

New member
hi, wasn't sure to put which section to put this in but i've got a few question's n im new 2 the game so hopefully this one's ok.....
k well basically i'm recording some track's for our band's demo these school holidays, and have pinched (with permission) some condenser mics from school to help with the kit. (the results from the last attempt using a single 57 and some cheapo dynamic on the kit can be heard on our site, www.myspace.com/verticleblinds)...

Anyways the mics I have are an AKG C100S, a shure 4.1, an audio technica 33A, and an sm 57......my question is does anyone know a great deal about these mics and if so, where would you place them when micing a kit. I know the best way is to experiment but i will only have restricted time to record the drums so any advice would be great, was thinking of: 57 on the snare, C100S in the kick, n the other two as overheads perhaps?
Also, (sorri so many question's i know i'm bound to get flamed :( ) what would be the best mic out of those to record vocals with?

edit: sorry, should have told some basic info about my setup.....i'm running mics through a behringer 1202fx, in2 line in stock standard soundcard in my p4, running adobe audition, and as i'm a student unfortunately i'm 'monitoring *cough* with multimedia speakers :(

sorry for the extremely long post, many thanks to anyone willing to give even the shortest responce :)
cheers
 
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oz_fenda said:
Anyways the mics I have are an AKG C100S, a shure 4.1, an audio technica 33A, and an sm 57......my question is does anyone know a great deal about these mics and if so, where would you place them when micing a kit. I know the best way is to experiment but i will only have restricted time to record the drums so any advice would be great, was thinking of: 57 on the snare, C100S in the kick, n the other two as overheads perhaps?
Also, (sorri so many question's i know i'm bound to get flamed :( ) what would be the best mic out of those to record vocals with?
Click to expand...

The Sm57 is a staple for snare drum, but given your limited selection, I might use it on kick and put the C1000s on snare (reportedly, one of it's better uses). The other 2 mics should be fine for overheads. Search for the Recorderman method and Glyn Johns method for tips on overhead placement, or just go with a simple XY above the kit. Since you are having to submix before your 2-input soundcard, it might be best to go with a single overhead and just have mono drums, for simplicity's sake.

As for vocals, I'd be inclined to try the 2 shure mics first, but every voice is different and it's merely a guessing game as to what will sound good on a particular vocalist...meaning, try each of them and pick the one that sounds best. Be sure to use a pop filter.
 
you have the right basic idea, do some serached in the drum and mic forums and you will see many different options (including a good thread with a 3 mic technique that might work for you).

The principles are the first inportant thing- Overheads are the biggest portion of your drum sound. They will be the primary source of your hats, cymbals, toms, and probabaly even snare. The kick and snare will be belnded in the mix to add punch.
be careful about sticking a condensor into the kick, the SPL will proibabaly be ok but the air pushed by the beater can stretch the diamphram and cost you money you don't have. Instead, try this: use some couch cusions or the like and build a "tunnel" from the resonant head on the kick, about 3 feet out or so (just lean the cushions against each other like a triangle witht eh floor), then put the mic at the end of the tunnel, and drape the wholethign with some heavy balnkets or comfortors or something similiar. Because the low frequency waves have a longer wavelength, the tunnel will give them a chance to build up befor htey hit the mic and the tunnel will provide some isolation as well AND being 2-3 feet away will avoid the air push on the mic. Do some test recordings and move the mic around to get the best sound out of your kick that way. You can also put a dynamic mic ont he beater side to capture some of the attack from the beater hitting the head, because the mic int he tunnel will get mostly the boom in the low end.

57 on the snare is pretty standard, put it where the drummer won't hit it and try to angle so the hats are in the dead spot, behind and/or to the side to avoid bleed- again, experiment with mic position to get it to sound best.

Overheads can be pretty striaght forwad, but you want to have them both as close to the same distance fromt he center of the sanre as you can manage to try to cut down on phase issues.

you will have to mix these well to get a good 2 channel signal that will hold up, theoretically, the overheads should be the meat of the signal, bring the snare and kick up to add oomph to those parts but jsut enough that it adds to your sound, not so much that is is in conflict with the other mics.

Daav
 
Try this c1000s as overhead sm57 on the kick (and if you have buss them through a single compresser) Its old school but it sounds cool. or I would suggest placing the 57 inside the kick pointing alittle more at the shell (so it will act as a pzm). place the c1000s between the snare and hihat. and with the rest of the dynamics slap em on the toms but have them face the toms so that the head would seem as a mirror and the dynamics would see the crash or ride or whatever cymbal is closest. this way when you hit the cymbals they will reflect of the heads of the toms into there mic.

peace
 
righto its taken me a couple of days but i've managed to fully digest all the info i got from everyone, and i've thought of a couple of questions i'd like to ask before I get the drummer in in a few days time.
firstly, as i will be mixing down before i go into the computer due to my mixer, should i leave the tracks panned to the centre, will playing around with it make it sound stupid which would render the recorded drums useless when i realise how dumb they sound? or is panning the each drum an absolutely must to make the recording sound semi-descent. i know i'd love to experiement but as mentioned above i don't have much time to get the drummers tracks down....

another thought, would it be a reasonable idea to record each drum on its own track (ie. record one drum track then get the drummer to overdub it a few times each time recording a different part of the kit, for the sake of fine tuning later on to create a better mix?)
thanks again for all the replies and any yet to come,
cheers
 
oz_fenda said:
should i leave the tracks panned to the centre?

would it be a reasonable idea to record each drum on its own track (ie. record one drum track then get the drummer to overdub it a few times each time recording a different part of the kit, for the sake of fine tuning later on to create a better mix?
Click to expand...

The kick and snare should be centered. If you are using 2 overheads, experiment with panning them away from center if you'd like. If using an XY configuration for the overheads, I typically pan them hard right/left. However, if you're using a spaced pair, hard panning may be too extreme.

I would advise against trying to record each drum separately. A drum kit is meant to be played as a unit and doing separate takes would kill the feel, imo. You might as well just used programmed/triggered drums if you're thinking of that route.
 
ah k cool thanks. Am i correct in saying it's best to only use one overhead as I have four different mics, or am I amagining a rule which says something like xy overheads generally require the same mics to work? also if using two overheads would I put one higher than the other to avoid phase issues?
cheers and thanks again :)
 
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