Micing a guitar cab for recording !

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Colwarter

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Hi,

I'm suppose to record a band in my studio in the next month, but i need to get some tricks before. I use a Presonus Firepod to record. So, I want to know which mic use to mic a 4x12 guitar cab. I have already two Shure sm57 and a plan on buying a Sennheiser e609. Do you have any idea of other mics i should use ? better mics ? Is this necessary to put a condenser mic also ? And also I need to know something very important : How many mic do i put in front of the cab ? I always had different answers. Each mic is on a different track on my software, so it will be hard to mix with 6 tracks just for one guitar you know. So please tell me your idea i will be very happy !!
Thanks again.

Alex
 
see what sounds good....play around with it. I have used an sm57 and can get a good sound....but I find a cheap MXL condenser gives me a better sound. Try different distances/angles/amp EQ's.....recording is alot of try it and see
 
Colwarter said:
Hi,

I'm suppose to record a band in my studio in the next month, but i need to get some tricks before. I use a Presonus Firepod to record. So, I want to know which mic use to mic a 4x12 guitar cab. I have already two Shure sm57 and a plan on buying a Sennheiser e609. Do you have any idea of other mics i should use ? better mics ? Is this necessary to put a condenser mic also ? And also I need to know something very important : How many mic do i put in front of the cab ? I always had different answers. Each mic is on a different track on my software, so it will be hard to mix with 6 tracks just for one guitar you know. So please tell me your idea i will be very happy !!
Thanks again.Alex

You can use the 57 or 609 and you can use both de 57 and the 609. The latter will make your guitar sound "fatter".
I like to add a condensor (Rode NT1a) to my 609 sound, the Rode barely need equalizing and it sounds great..
 
Colwarter said:
Hi,

I'm suppose to record a band in my studio in the next month, but i need to get some tricks before. I use a Presonus Firepod to record. So, I want to know which mic use to mic a 4x12 guitar cab. I have already two Shure sm57 and a plan on buying a Sennheiser e609. Do you have any idea of other mics i should use ? better mics ? Is this necessary to put a condenser mic also ? And also I need to know something very important : How many mic do i put in front of the cab ? I always had different answers. Each mic is on a different track on my software, so it will be hard to mix with 6 tracks just for one guitar you know. So please tell me your idea i will be very happy !!
Thanks again.

Alex

One trick you can try that I have yet to see in any website or book is to put your mic as close to the cone as possible, pointing at the wall of the speaker. Most books and websites show the mic pointing at the face of the speaker so that the mic is perpendicular to the face of the cabinet. I like to turn the mic so it faces the wall of the speaker instead (not always at a right angle though). This puts it more like a 45 degree or so angle to the face of the cab. Also I have mine off axis, not in the center of the speaker, and as close to that wall as possible. This seems to get the best sound in my trials. A single mic does pretty decent, add some effects to it later to add room ambiance and such or place one or two back some if you like the room sound a lot.

To fix the other problem you could use a bus. Route all mics into a bus and route the bus into a single track...if that is what you want. Hopefully your software knows what a bus is and has them in it.

I'm pretty new though...
 
I see this question so many times and my reply is always the same. This came from a thread called metal recording techniqes, but works excellent for many genres.

I done quite a bit of work for artists on the " Metal Blade " label so I guess I can chime in

Actually a lot of this came from following around the UBER God Of Metal Engineering : Bill Metoyer. ( check the back of your records, if you dont see his name on anything, you need a trip to the record store )

Make DAMN sure your guitar is in tune, and intonated properly. Different intonations and even VERY slightly different, can make whole separate flavors of distortion so get it as close as you can. If you know the difference in distortion sound between a 24 3/4" scale guitar neck and a 25 1/2" one then you know what Im saying.

Now on to your preamp, or preamp section of your head, depending on what you got. In most cases, metal guitar tones come from a LOT, a WHOLE LOT less ( thats right LESS ) distortion/preamp gain than you would use live. For riffs and chord changes, the REAL heaviness comes from dynamics, the fact that it gets LOUDER when your pic hits the string than when the string is just resonating.
It seems obvious but its not really. You need to MAXIMIZE the dynamic range at this stage because from here on out, the signal is going to be compressed and degraded in all sorts of ways. In most cases the gain should be about where, when if you SOFTLY strum a chord it actually comes out clean. Transistor amps/pedals may not do this ( some will ) which is another reason tubes are usually perferred for this type of thing.
Now, tone. Scooped mids, cranked bass and treble right? WRONG. For recording you will need a LOT more mids than you normally would for live. You need to be heard. The way our ears work, we take most of our cues from the midrange. Get as much body in the tone as you can....not bottom, body. You can always scoop it out later if you must. Like the lumberjack says " always cut long" right ?

Ok, on to the power amp or the power section of your head if you use one. Here is where you start the dynamic reduction process. You want to get a sound with enough sustain to work, but being careful whether or not you want to HEAR power tube saturation or speaker distortion. In some cases you want to, in some cases you dont. Get a good sound that you ENJOY. Make sure ( if you can at this point in the recording) that it fits with the other tracks. You will probably use a speaker that you wouldnt like live for this process. A speaker with more mid's than normal, like a celestion Vintage 30 or maybe a Kendrick. Greenbacks are good live, but sometimes lose that all important midrange on tape. Watch the speaker distortion, get a power level that makes COMFORTABLE dynamics for you. Errr on the LESS compressed side so you gotta work just a WEE bit harder than normal to crunch it up.

Now, stand in the room with the amp. Get your head moving around until you find the one speaker that sounds better than the others, or maybe just a real good spot where it seems to sound best. I am assuming we are NOT going after a " room " sound at this point. Stick a 57 RIGHT there, where your ear was.
Now, at the console, FIRST verify that that is *roughly* the sound you heard out there. Be sure levels are where they should be etc...no eq at this point on the console. Have someone move the mic back towards or away from the cab ( or do it yourself with headphones ). You are doing two things with this:

1) changing the ratio of direct( from the speaker ) vs. reflected ( yeah you might be only a few inches from the cab but the room still is playing a HUGE part) sound coming into the mic

2)changing the amount of dynamic compression that the actual volume of the speaker is causing in the mic's diaphragm, ribbon or voice coil. You are changing the BEHAVIOUR of the sound here.

Once you like the placement of your mic, its time to get REAL tricky.

ONE mic is almost never enough, but with two or more, PHASE CANCELLATION rears its ugly head. But we got a trick for that right?

Here comes

Put the guitar down. Make it make noise, or take the cable off and stick it on something that will make noise. This noise has to be stable and constant....a fender strat's hum is perfect for this assuming it has some midrange harmonics to it.

Using your console's meters, bring that noise up to wherever your "zero" is. This will probably require a LOT of mic pre gain so make sure your speakers are turned down. DONT let anyone touch the guitar or whatever the noise source is. Once youve got the signal to zero, mute the channel

Next go into the room with the amp, and put another mic about equidistant from the speaker as the first mic is...Be careful not to disturb Mic #1.

Back in the control room, bring Mic #2 up to zero

Now, VERY IMPORTANTLY, pull Mic#2's fader ( NOT mic pre ) down to -infinity. Unmute Mic#1. Slowly push Mic#2's fader up towards zero.

If the volume at your final LeftRight Mix buss on your console goes UP, you need to flip the phase of mic #2. If your console doesnt have a phase switch, make an out of phase cable. Just reverse pins 2 and 3 on an XLR, and make DAMN sure you label that cable from now on so you dont screw up some overheads or something.
Remember if the volume goes UP flip the phase

If the volume goes down we can proceed...keep flipping the phase until the volume goes DOWN when they are at their zeros.

Now pick up a bat, knife or gun. Whatever you are best with. Threaten anyone in the control room with it and say " DO NOT touch that guitar !!!! I am gonna have headphones on at extreme gain levels and am risking it all so you can have a good guitar sound ". Wave the weapon around menacingly until you are SURE that they get the point. Kick them out and lock the door if you cant trust em...now is NOT the time for gags.

now go out to the amp with headphones on. You will hear a hiss or buzz or hum...make sure the hum in the phones is louder than the one you can hear directly from the amp.

DO NOT cough, you will blow your eardrums right into each other. Becareful of any noise that may be present.

Now, EXTREMELY carefully, move Mic#2 back and forth, left and right. SLOWLY

You should hear a whoosh, much like a flanger pedal would make.

The trick here is to find the spot where the LEAST noise is coming out of the headphones. Keep moving the mic you will find it.

have you caught the theory yet? We are looking for the spot where the two mics are THE MOST in phase with each other. If one is phase flipped, then at the most in phase spot, they will nearly cancel each other out. FIND THAT SPOT

once you got it, take off the phones and go back to the console.

Turn both mic preamps gains ALL the way down. Put fader one at the unity position on your console. Play your guitar and turn up the mic pre gain until you hit zero. Now mute Mic #1. Now turn fader 2 to the unity position. Bring up Mic pre #2 until you hit zero.

edit : OOPS!!!!!!
I forgot, tho you prolly figured it out. Unflip the phase on mic #2 at this point so that both mics are IN phase. Sorry about that

Unmute #1 and mess with the faders. Those two faders now become the BEST EQ money can buy! Turn up one then the other, experiment to your heart's content. Once you got a sound you like, buss them together and send em to a track...or keep em separate if you want some choices later...

revel in your glorious new tone!

Aaron Carey
StudioZ/Pipelineaudio
www.studiozpro.com

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nroberts said:
To fix the other problem you could use a bus. Route all mics into a bus and route the bus into a single track...if that is what you want. Hopefully your software knows what a bus is and has them in it.

I have Steinberg Nuendo, but do I need to add a mixer or anything external to put 4 mics on the same track ? If I can do that just with Nuendo that would be awesome !! I don't know that trick yet, If you know exactly how to do it just tell me if you have time !! I would be very happy. And in your personnal opinion, or the one of the others, do you think it's better to keep each mic you use to mic a cab on separate tracks ?

By the way thanks to all your suggestion. I'll have some things to try in the next days !
 
You have to have separate inputs for each mic so your sound card has to have 4 ins, otherwise you need a mixer.
 
Cas said:
You can use the 57 or 609 and you can use both de 57 and the 609. The latter will make your guitar sound "fatter".
I like to add a condensor (Rode NT1a) to my 609 sound, the Rode barely need equalizing and it sounds great..

I often do the same, with a 57 and NT1a right on top of one another in a 90 degree XY configuration, directly front and center of the cone. Keeps them in phase and the balance between is usually all the eq needed, aside from a highpass.

I read an interview with Terry Date where he said that he simply uses two 57s, one pointed straight in at the side of the cone, and one angled towards the middle, with the capsules basically on top of one another for phase alignment.
 
I actually prefer a matching stereo pair as that is how most pairs of ears are. :P
 
VesuviusJay said:
You have to have separate inputs for each mic so your sound card has to have 4 ins, otherwise you need a mixer.

I have a presonus firepod that has 8 in and 8 out simultaneous. That's the problem, when I want to put more than one mic in front of the cab, each mic is on a different track, so it take place for nothing, anybody knows a trick to put these four mics on the same track ? (if I don't have a mixer)
 
57 or 58?

Im using a korg d1600 and was wondering if using a sm57 on the cabinet would be good in combination with a sm58 room mike or would i be better off with a mike like the rode nt1a mentioned earlier for the room mike?also, has anyone used a beta 57 as opposed to the regular sm57? thanks, joe
 
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VesuviusJay said:
I actually prefer a matching stereo pair as that is how most pairs of ears are. :P

You're kidding, right? Most pairs of ears are not equal at all.
 
multitracker said:
Im using a korg d1600 and was wondering if using a sm57 on the cabinet would be good in combination with a sm58 room mike or would i be better off with a mike like the rode nt1a mentioned earlier for the room mike?also, has anyone used a beta 57 as opposed to the regular sm57? thanks, joe

Often you better off with a condenser as room mike, in that case the Rode will be better. I don't know about your recording environment but you need a nice sounding room to make some use of a room mike.

And I think the beta 57 is a bit clearer and handles the transients better, but then... it costs more
 
Well, I tell ya, if you can find the difference in eqallity between a pair of ears, I'd like to see the study. :P

scrubs said:
You're kidding, right? Most pairs of ears are not equal at all.
 
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