Mic Test results are in...NT1A-C3000B-TLM103

tmortonlove

New member
A few weeks ago I spent some time at a music store comparing 3 large diaphragm mics: the RODE NT1A, the AKG C3000B, and the Neumann TLM 103.

The Set –Up: A store salesperson set me up with the 3 mics in a quiet room. Each mic was mounted on the edge of the table in front of where I was seated, each with its own shockmount. Pre was a Focusrite TwinTrak Pro. I had to turn down the Preamp, unplug and replug a mic and turn the level back up each time I wanted to change. Maybe not the best set-up, but it’s the first one I’ve been able to do. And it was for free! I sat in a chair about 18-24 inches away from the mics. I played an acoustic guitar and sang, and alternated between doing both together and separately.

My Experience:
I’ve played acoustic guitar for about 30 years. I sing and play publicly about twice a month. Occasionally I still do a full concert – solo. I’ve had a Roland VS 880EX for over 4 years now, and have produced 1 CD and many, many takes of 10 more songs for another as-of-yet-unfinished CD. I own a Taylor 514CE, and have had a RODE NT1 and ART Tube MP for about 4 years also. Lately, I’ve been training my ears to listen purposefully to music… how the music sounds, whether good or illin’; what I like or do not like in sounds; and speculating and experimenting as to how I can get the sounds I like with the tools I already have.

The Short End of IT :
NT1A – From what I could tell, this sounded just like what I’m used to hearing at home in my studio with my NT1. Very sensitive…picks up anything and everything. Seems overly bright. Very clear, and not muddled at all. But in comparison with the TLM 103, it seems the low end wasn’t even there. (No wonder I’ve had nightmares with EQing my mixes! ) Also seems very quiet like advertised. When I played and sang, it seemed the mic favored the guitar over my voice, due perhaps to its sensitivity to higher frequencies– it was not a evenly balanced mix by any means.

AKG C3000B - Not quite as bright as the NT1A, but very close. Didn’t pick up as much transient noises as did the RODE. (Occasionally I’d hear in-house announcements on an overhead speaker from outside the room. These were more noticeable on the RODE.) Sounded more flat than the RODE (What’s more flat than a road?). But still noticed the mic wanted to accentuate the guitar in favor of my voice.

Neumann TLM 103 - Ah! :) This is what a good quality condenser is supposed to sound like! Suffice to say, I could be content taking what I heard from this and burning it to a CD with no effect, EQ, etc., if I had to. The bottom end finally appeared on the audio spectrum. It sounded like what I thought a mic should sound like. The balance and blend of guitar to voice was perfectly natural. Mmm Mmm good. Now…

I need to hear some feedback about EQing mics… was the difference I heard between those mics simply a matter of an EQ fix? Such as with a 31 band graphic? I’ve read mic reviews before in EM magazine where the reviewer said he could make this mic sound like this one by adding 3db of 400hz etc. etc. and so on. Granted maybe he was reviewing dynamic mics. Also, I’ve read some reviews of mics where they talk of depth or spatiality in the audio field of the mic. Isn’t that just do to mic placement, or is it something else? :confused:

Any feedback would be great. Questions are welcome.
 
I don't really have any questions, but thanks for taking the time to write that helpful and informative post. Out of those 3 mics, I think I would've naturally gravitated to the 103. thanks again.
 
My God, that's a hell of a first post!! Looks like you've gone and skipped that whole "what's a preamp used for and do I actually need cables" kind of thing. Welcome aboard.

And...yeah. I have nothing of interest to contribute here whatsoever. Sorry to interrupt--back to your regularly scheduled thread...
 
RE: EQ and Mics

I really wish someone could lend some guidance regarding my question about EQ and a microphone.... perhaps relating to the mics I wrote about. Is this something worth getting a less expensive mic for just so you can EQ it? Is the extra lower freqs I heard on the TLM 103 due to the mic element or to some inherent EQing in the electronics of the mic Neumann is adding???
 
You heard quality, man, eq can be used for anything YOU want it to do. Most commonly to roll off some highs (5-12k), scoop some mids to take out the "boxiness" (400 - 800) or roll the bass off some mics to make room for what belongs there. Nobody wants to spend time "fixing" an inferior mic with eq when they can record it clean, leave it alone and move on. I recently acquired a Brauner phantom C and the difference between what I was used to hearing (and liking after dicking around with eq and compression) and what I hear now is amazing.
 
just as a reference...

...I know I'm gonna take heat for this, but if you're really gonna decide what you can get for your dollars, see if you can find an MXL V77s (it's discontinued, but still in stock with alot of independant music stores)...I'm not suggesting it's a 103, but it will definately trash the Rode NT1A and provide very natural, uncolored reproduction...I have 2 Rodes (NT2 & NT1000)...both superior in sound quality to the 1A, and the V77s still outshines the Rodes...at $299. (the going price) this was the Best-Bang-For-The-Buck tube mic you could find (just search Harvey Gerst's postings on this mic)...I've used it in my studio with very pleasing results...I really think you'll hear more of what you heard in the 103's reproduction of your sound...there are many out there who would suggest that the V77s is even sweeter than the 103 (not me of course!...certainly not on this website!...a Chinese mic sounding nicer than a Neumann?...how absurd!...)
...but then again, if you have about a grand to play with, that Neumann logo is soooo pretty!...like a BMW mic!...just looks good in the driveway! (or on a mic stand)...or do as I do...make friends with other musicians who have Neumanns...and treat them nice...maybe they'll let you borrow it sometime...(but still checkout the V77s...I think you'll be surprised!)...Good Luck
 
tmortonlove said:
Any feedback would be great. Questions are welcome.

Why would you compare an NT-1A with a TLM-103 when the NTK would be a much better comparison?

That's like comparing a Chevy Cavalier to a Mercedes 500SL.

Same thing goes for the C3000B, it's not even in the same ballpark in quality and price.

Go ahead and pat yourself on the back for doing a useless test that revealed blatantly obvious results.

What's next?

How about comparing a Great River preamp with an ART Tube MP and a Presonus Blue Tube? :rolleyes:

Excuse my sarcasm, but the least you could've done is compared mics that are closer in quality and price. That would be an informative test!
 
Hey man, go easy on him, it's only his second post. Besides, many people would argue that the 103 is Neumann's worst mic, so it's not that crazy a comparison (although I agree that the NTK or Classic II would be a better comparison).

tmortonlove - where in PA are you, I'm near Philly, not a whole lot of people from PA on the board.
 
Here's what I'm talking about....

AKG C3000B - Price: $249

RODE NT-1A - Price: $199

Neumann TLM-103 - Price: $999


You could buy five NT-1A's for the price of one TLM-103!!!

If you had $75,000 to spend, would you rather buy 5 Chevy Cavaliers or one kick-ass Mercedes 500SL Coupe?

Of the two, which car do you think is going to go faster and handle better?
 
tmortonlove said:
I really wish someone could lend some guidance regarding my question about EQ and a microphone.... perhaps relating to the mics I wrote about. Is this something worth getting a less expensive mic for just so you can EQ it? Is the extra lower freqs I heard on the TLM 103 due to the mic element or to some inherent EQing in the electronics of the mic Neumann is adding???

What you heard is the difference in overall quality. You're fortunate, many can't hear a difference.

Regarding eq, I guess I'm assuming you're asking about using eq in the context of recording as opposed to gigging live. Here's some ideas:

1) You've got "eq" conrols built into how you place the mic. The TLM103 is cardioid, so close/far variations will allow you to use the proximity effect (or not), which as you know affects the bass frequencies (mostly). Next, there's the on-axis and off-axis frequency response of the mic. Study the polar chart and try the mic at 30 degree or so angles.

2) Virtually every mic has some "eq" built in. It shows up, for example, as a frequency rise of some amount for some range of frequency, often called a bump. There can be dips too. The TLM103 has a gentle and wide rise in some of the high frequencies.

3) You can put eq between the preamp and converters and tweak the signal as it is recorded. Many don't do this because it's permanent.

4) Most use eq on mixdown, either with plugins (if you're mixing in the box), or through external eq.

5) Most would recommend parametric eq instead of graphic eq.

6) Really great eq (outboard) is very expensive. There are not alot of mid-level products out there. There are many budget pieces, most of which sound cheesy.

7) Plug-ins are not yet as good as the best outboard eq, but they get closer each year.

Good luck!
 
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