Mic Shoot-out - Clean Guitar Sound

  • Thread starter Thread starter Blue Bear Sound
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I found Track 5 (the Marshall) sounded honky everywhere EXCEPT on the computer speakers as I was dumping the clips to MP3. I use PS6s in the studio so I'm surprised you didn't hear the honk.

BUT... I have gotten useful tracks using it - it all depends on the application and the particular color you're looking for.

This test gives you an idea of the characteristics of each mic, but you're right - it doesn't tell you how these essentially "solo'd" sounds will sit in the mix.

If there's one thing you can take out of these examples is that you really do need to experiment with different mics to get the sound you're looking for. One mic is just not going to "do it all."

Bruce
 
I am not the least bit surprised that clip 2 was my favorite sound. Followed closely by 3, then 4. All three would be okay with me if that guitar would be the prominent sound.

2 sounded had the most directness and "recorded" realism. 3 was a tighter sound that would probably work much better in a dense mix. 4 just had a tad of 4kHz hash that I didn't care for compared to 2 and 3, but the directness of the track is certainly much better than clips 1, 5, 6, and 7.

Clip one is an aweful tone!

5 sounds like it very plastic sounding to me.

6 was sort of bloated in all the wrong ways, and very sterile in comparison to 2,3, and 4.

7 was about like 5, but with a bit more "space" around the sound.

I do have to say that I wouldn't have gone for any of the tones in the first place, but that is a different topic.

Work with 2 Bruce.

Ed
 
Cool,

As I was coming to read the results today, I was thinking to myself: what if track 5, my fave, is actually the marshall?

It turned out to be. Great thing I have a similar sounding marshall.

This also proves something to me. One's listening medium is very important. The people who like track 2 also like 3 and 4 . Those who liked 5 also liked 6 and 7
 
I dont know how much it says about listening mediums, I think it says more about preference. Some look for "naturalness" and "realism" and some look for good balanced tone whether natural sounding or not. :)

Whatre you listening with, Cyan?
 
sonusman said:
I am not the least bit surprised that clip 2 was my favorite sound. Followed closely by 3, then 4. All three would be okay with me if that guitar would be the prominent sound.

2 sounded had the most directness and "recorded" realism. 3 was a tighter sound that would probably work much better in a dense mix. 4 just had a tad of 4kHz hash that I didn't care for compared to 2 and 3, but the directness of the track is certainly much better than clips 1, 5, 6, and 7.

Clip one is an aweful tone!

5 sounds like it very plastic sounding to me.

6 was sort of bloated in all the wrong ways, and very sterile in comparison to 2,3, and 4.

7 was about like 5, but with a bit more "space" around the sound.

I do have to say that I wouldn't have gone for any of the tones in the first place, but that is a different topic.

Work with 2 Bruce.

Ed
Click to expand...
See? It's all in perspective!! Ed prefers the classic SM57 and 57 beta sound... I like it as well but I enjoyed the smoother M160 sound of track 1 even more after working with it for an afternoon!

The Beyer M160 is $900 mic (cdn), while the ubiquitous SM57 is a $150 (cdn) -- it's not the price that counts, it's the application and the end result of the sound. For a clean jazz sound, where the guitar is prominent and possibly the only rhythm instrument, you may reach for a different mic than you would for another type of song.

Now - a question for Ed --
This was a bare bones signal path... Fender Strat --> amp (set on neutral, stock clean sound, all tone controls at center) --> mic --> mic pre --> masterlink

No EQ, no filtering, no processing in any way... what is it you heard about the guitar tone that you didn't like? (no hidden reason for that question - I want your perspective on what YOU (and anyone else, for that matter) heard in terms of guitar sound and what specifically was missing in terms of tone)

Oh yeah, Ed -- it REALLY surprised me to hear you say clip 5 and and 7 sound similar -- they are night and day on every sound system I checked the clips on, except for laptop computer speakers! Clip 5 is honky like crazy - clip 7 has no honk at all!!! :confused:

Bruce
 
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Hmm...

Listening starting from track 1 consecutively through track 7, I liked 1 and 7 the most. BUT after listening through all of them and going back to listen to track 1 again, it sounded muddy. BUT also, tracks 2-5 sounded rather thin after listening to track1.

The ear adjusts...
 
Blue Bear Sound said:

S

Now - a question for Ed --
This was a bare bones signal path... Fender Strat --> amp (set on neutral, stock clean sound, all tone controls at center) --> mic --> mic pre --> masterlink

No EQ, no filtering, no processing in any way... what is it you heard about the guitar tone that you didn't like? (no hidden reason for that question - I want your perspective on what YOU (and anyone else, for that matter) heard in terms of guitar sound and what specifically was missing in terms of tone)
Click to expand...

I'll give you an answer, but do not take offense please, as this is my opinion. I dont have any eloquent way to put it, as I'm not a very good writer. They just didnt sound good, muddy comes to mind. No defenition as well. Distant. On their own they didnt sound too hot, but they may have been brilliant in the context of the song. As always, YMMV.
 
Hey guys...

Seems some of you are under the impression that those clips were from actual recorded tracks - they aren't.... they were flat out quick 'n dirty, plug in a guitar, play a riff, no tone mucking around, a mic'd amp....

That is exactly what a stock American Deluxe strat sounds like thru a Yamaha DG100-212 (100 watt, dual celestion) combo, at a clean setting with all the tone control in the centre position, as picked up by a mic, exactly 6 inches away, slightly off-axis.

It wasn't like I spent hours on trying to set up great guitar tones... plug'n'play to create those clips.

I asked about feedback on the tone to get others perspective on how they would shape a their own sound given a "basic" playing field.

I would have been really shocked if any of you said, wow - killer guitar tone.... because there's no way it possibly could have been!

SO.. that being said - no one's going to be hurting my feelings or anything - what would you like to have heard out of the guitar tone, from YOUR individual frames of reference, using those clips as a starting point?

BTW - thanks Ametth, for your feedback...

Bruce
 
Personally, I was surprised at the disparity between the different mics - I listened to this at work on my PC speakers, expecting to hear bugger all difference, and I was wrong.
I do want to do this at home though. See what my opinion is there.
What I've noticed is the people who've listened to the clips through their PC's have tended to like 5 and 7 - that's interesting, as those were my favorites (in a similar environment).
I do appreciate the opportunity to listen to this kind of one on one comparison - especially with a generic, plug and play guitar tone.
That's the kind of thing we all are looking for as homereccers - for me, it's a plug and play (pray?) world. I just want to work with what I've got, and if I can start to hear these subtle differences between mics, I figure I can start to fine tune my equipment to produce what I want (need) to hear. As long as I can get that to the mics I do own in one piece, I'll be happy.
Thanks, Bruce - my ears are thankful for it.
Mike
 
hey bruce,

thanks for doing this comparison. Knowledge is power.

jusumpilgrim,

As soon as I finished my last post, the thought crossed my mind. What if it is not actually the listening medium but personal preference. I do think its personal preference.'

I have never heard the real thing, so I was not looking for realism. I was looking for pleasing. I guess thats why I chose clip 5,6 and 7 they sounded pleasing.

I was listeing on sony mdr-15 headphones
 
CyanJaguar said:
....What if it is not actually the listening medium but personal preference. I do think its personal preference.....
Click to expand...
I think it's more of a medium thing than preference thing (at least for me anyway), because on my cheesy little Aiwa speakers unless it has LOTS of high presence (and maybe a little honky in the mids too) it is going to sound like MUD through these things. So I can't really hear how these mics are "supposed" to sound and therefore it affects my preference. I think that if you have a decent setup so that you can accurately hear each mic and judge it accordingly, then yeah it is a matter of preference (like Ed), but I know that for me (and maybe others too) it definitly is my speakers more than anything.

As soon as I get some good monitors (YSM1p) I'll give it another listen and see if I still feel the same way.

-tkr
 
Ooops, double post

I accendentally pushed the quote button instead of the edit button. :o

-tkr
 
#7

I'm with you there on #7, Bruce. To these untrained ears, sample #7 really felt like it was moving air through my speakers. The others sounded flatter in comparison-- 7 really jumps out at you a bit more without being edgy.

Thanks for doing that for us.

Pete
 
two more pennies your way

Track 7 seems to have the best blend of frequencies: my ear isn’t searching for the lows.. and the highs aren’t blaring..

I don’t like how the mids stand out in track 2, and I like track 3 even less..

Neither do I like tracks 4, 5, 6.. although I can hear the difference in color, the quality of the sound seems about the same for each..

I really like track 1 even though the warmth brings out more of the lower frequencies.. I would venture to say that track 1 sounds better by itself than track 7, but track 7 would have a better likelihood of fitting into a mix (given the other instruments involved of course)..

I could only listen to this on my pc speakers.. so I may be missing a few things… it’s hard to completely justify my dislike for tracks 2 and 3 because I heard track 1 first and it set the standard of comparison for the rest of the tracks..

Thanks Bruce!

Cy
 
2 and 3 i guessed 57 and 58.. so i was close at least.. but the last track sounded the best to me.. the first track was too boomy for my tastes, obviously i could eq some of the boom out.
 
Hi Bruce,

Could you email me those clips? I'm interested to give them a listen.

BTW... the results of the 160 and 57 should come as no surprise. When I think of great guitar tone (at least in the rock genre) Eddie Kramer's name is always the first to come to mind.

In the studio, he always used the same setup... 160, 57, and a 421 (Sennheiser) in a very tight cluster. For distance micing add a U67.

Obviously, I only view this as a starting point (plus Neumann mics just aren't in most people's budget).

Although I haven't heard the clips yet, I would suggest that some of the worst sounds may worthwhile discoveries. Try adding in some effects and hard panning them etc. over a more solid sounding track. The results often make a good sounding (but somewhat boring) guitar track more unique :-)
 
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