Mic selection and placement questions.....

  • Thread starter Thread starter pdlstl
  • Start date Start date
pdlstl

pdlstl

New member
This may be more info than anyone is willing to write out but I thought I would ask anyway.

I currently have:

AT 4033
AT 4041
CAD E-100
Shure SM57

Which of these mics should I use and what approximate placement locations would be a good starting point for the following instruments:

acoustic guitar
mandolin
dobro
banjo
fiddle
upright bass

If the response is going to be too lengthy, can you tell me a good source on the 'net for this information?

Thanks, this board is a wonderful resource!

Earl
 
Hi Earl. I can give you some starting points but there are no one size fits all placement rules.
I've had good luck with a 4033 on a Martin Dreadnaught about 9-12" out at the 14th fret. Also at shoulder height pointing down at the same general area. The 4041 would be a very simaler mic to the 4033 and good for guiatr or mandolin.
Believe it or don't, the 57 is one of the mics I reach for to mic banjo.
 
Check this!

Earl/pdlstl: Have you seen this thread yet?

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27030

In there, Harvey Gerst covers many of the topics you wonder about, and many, many more, too! The thread is VERY lengthy, just to warn you (but worth every moment spent reading). It may still be on the front page of this forum, also. It's called "How does diaphragm size/polar pattern relate to mic applications?"

Enjoy!
 
Wow!

Track Rat - Great info on the Martin. I have a D-18V and will try your suggestions!

esactun - Looks like enough info to keep me going for quite some time. I notice that Harvey is in Sanger TX. I'm only about 40-45 miles from him. Sounds like a great fellow to know!

Thanks again to both of you,

Earl
 
pdlstl said:
This may be more info than anyone is willing to write out but I thought I would ask anyway.

I currently have:

AT 4033
AT 4041
CAD E-100
Shure SM57

Which of these mics should I use and what approximate placement locations would be a good starting point for the following instruments:

acoustic guitar
mandolin
dobro
banjo
fiddle
upright bass

If the response is going to be too lengthy, can you tell me a good source on the 'net for this information?

Thanks, this board is a wonderful resource!

Earl
Click to expand...
Well, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and make a wild guess that this is some kind of bluegrass group. Which means, I'm gonna hafta make some kind of assumptions about the actual instruments being used. For some of the instruments, replace the name I guessed with a "look-alike" model.

Acoustic guitar: Either a Martin D-18 or a D-28. I like the mic around at least 20 inches back off the bottom of the guitar, pointed at the bridge for rhythm work, and then move in closer for the solo stuff. If it's a mellow D-18, use one of the brighter mic; if it's a more trebly D-28, try the SM-57.

Mandolin: Depends on the style. For an F-hole design, try right where the neck joins the body for rhythm; move down lower towards the bridge for solo stuff. For an A style (oval hole), reverse it; down low for solos and up higher for rhythm.

Dobro: Pretty much the same for any dobro, whether it's single cone, tri-cone, bisquit, etc. About 18" above and maybe 10" out, aimed at the resonator.

Banjo: Whether it's a Mastertone or an RB250, they all record pretty well from at least 12 to 18" out from the bridge, with the mic pointed at the bridge. You may hafta do some eq-ing if the head tension isn't even; listen for one or two ringing sounds that aren't in the notes the banjo player is playing.

Fiddle: This is harder, since no two fiddles sound alike. Start about 18" directly above the fiddle, then rotate the mic in an 180 degree arc till the mic is exactly 18" below the fiddle. Somewhere in that arc, the instrument will "come alive".

Upright bass: Since this is probably gonna be a lot of "slap bass" stuff, try about 18 to 24" out, aimed at a point 1/2 way between the bridge and where the neck joins the body.

With all these instruments, one constant will hold true; if it sounds too bright, switch to another mic, or try moving the mic a bit.

With Flatt and Scruggs, or the Kentucky Colonels, I usually didn't need more than just one mic for vocals, and another mic or two placed a little lower for solos. If you have the time, experiment a little bit. Sometimes fewer mics will give better results.

It's gonna be a fun session; wish I were there.
 
Were you there when they recorded "the Ballad of Jed Clampet"?
 
A couple of other points to keep in mind:

Recording a bluegrass group is NOT the same as recording a rock group. If they've been around for a while, they're used to doing their little "bluegrass dance steps" that they've had to learn to get their instrument sounding good on stage.

Cousin Josh and Leroy would often lean forward for solos (which had the effect of lowering the front edge of their dobros) to get the instrument in the right position to best be heard. When Lester Flatt played his "G" or "D" run, he would move in and raise his guitar way up, so that the sound came off the bottom guitar bout, rather than from the sound hole.

Finally, these instruments project and bleed - a lot, so "isolating" the instruments doesn't always work. Sometimes, you just have to mix it live while you're recording.

A great bluegrass group can be a joy to listen to, and it doesn't have to be 100% perfect, as long as the fun and excitement aren't killed during the recording process.
 
darrin_h2000 said:
Were you there when they recorded "the Ballad of Jed Clampett"?
Click to expand...
No, but I still have about 12 hours of live Flatt and Scruggs tapes that I recorded when they played the Ash Grove in Los Angeles in the 60's.
 
Thanks Harvey! I've been over reading the Harvey Gerst "Mic God" thread! :D

You're pretty close on some of your assumptions but let me fill you in on the others.

The acoustic is a D-18V. Played by me.

The mando is a Flatiron Festival F. Played by me.

The dobro is a 1976 Model 60 squareneck. Played by me.

The banjo is a Deering Sierra. Played by me.

The upright is a 1953 Kay w/gut. Played by my best friend.

The vocals are myself and bass player.

The fiddle is German. That's all that's known about it's lineage. Played by best friends daughter.

So.....this project is pure-D tracking. No problems with bleeding etc. I fear that it may become too sterile but only time/experience will tell!
It's gonna be a fun session; wish I were there.
Click to expand...

Well, you just wheel on over to Fort Worth! BTW, can I just come to Sanger and watch you work? :D

Thanks a million Harvey! I've learned so much I didn't know about mics from the other thread and I'm only through page 5!

How's the sciatica (sp?) these days?

Earl
 
pdlstl said:
Thanks Harvey! I've been over reading the Harvey Gerst "Mic God" thread! :D

You're pretty close on some of your assumptions but let me fill you in on the others.

The acoustic is a D-18V. Played by me.

In my day, it was a Martin D-18, or it was something else. What the hell is a "V" model?

The mando is a Flatiron Festival F. Played by me.

That's like the F-5, right?

The dobro is a 1976 Model 60 squareneck. Played by me.

ok

The banjo is a Deering Sierra. Played by me.

Similar to an RB250?

The upright is a 1953 Kay w/gut. Played by my best friend.

o-kay

The vocals are myself and bass player.

Are you gonna overdub other harmonies or just stay with the melody and fifth above?

The fiddle is German. That's all that's known about it's lineage. Played by best friends daughter.

Can she sing?

So.....this project is pure-D tracking. No problems with bleeding etc. I fear that it may become too sterile but only time/experience will tell!

It's a worthy project. I'll be interested to hear the results. Lemme know if you need to borrow some other mics.

Well, you just wheel on over to Fort Worth! BTW, can I just come to Sanger and watch you work? :D

Anytime. People are always welcome here.

Thanks a million Harvey! I've learned so much I didn't know about mics from the other thread and I'm only through page 5!

How's the sciatica (sp?) these days?

Actually, I only had it that one time, at the start of that thread.

Earl
Click to expand...
 
In my day, it was a Martin D-18, or it was something else. What the hell is a "V" model?

The "V" is a Vintage Re-issue of the pre-war 18's.

That's like the F-5, right?

Absolutely!

Similar to an RB250?

Yep.

Are you gonna overdub other harmonies or just stay with the melody and fifth above?

Melody and fifth. But recorded at separate times.

Can she sing?

Lordy I wish.....

It's a worthy project. I'll be interested to hear the results. Lemme know if you need to borrow some other mics.

Thank you muchly kind sir!

Anytime. People are always welcome here.

I might just take you up on that. If I remember from your studio site, you recorded a group from Mineral Wells, Greywolf? MW is my hometown.

Actually, I only had it that one time, at the start of that thread.

Glad to hear that. I have something similar that flares up from time to time. Pinched nerve that runs from hip area down through my thigh. If it catches just right, my leg pretty much crumbles beneath me. Painful for sure.

Thanks again for all the great info you share on this BBS!

Earl
 
v= vintage as the guitar sounds like its a vintage reissue

thats why he is calling it a d18v many years ago there was no v because thats when the original instruments were made so they were the original vintage instruments only thing they were not vintage yet :) martin d18v...... now martin d 18........ then
 
pdlstl said:
If I remember from your studio site, you recorded a group from Mineral Wells, Greywolf? MW is my hometown.

Thanks again for all the great info you share on this BBS!

Earl
Click to expand...
Yup, I thought Greywolf was a pretty good group.

As for sharing info here, I just hope some of it turns out to be helpful.
 
Howdy Pdlstl (I read that as pedal steel)
I'm also here in cowtown.Welcome to the BBS.Good luck with the session and keep posting.
Tom
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top