Mic Recommendation

[Asuka98]

After reading through old posts, I have a question about which mics to buy, but I know it's a touchy subject. I hope I don't open up old wounds.

I have about $400 or so to spend on some condenser mics. I know that isn't much. I have a whole slew of dynamic mics, but I'm starting a project in a couple of months and I really need some condensers, obviously.

So, here are my options:

1) a pair of studio project C4s
2) a single studio project B1/B3 and a pair of Behringer B5s
3) a pair of studio projects B3s

(1) is nice for drum overheads and instruments, but doesn't offer me a single large-diaphragm mic. (3) allows me all the pattern flexibility as (1) but doesn't offer me a single small-diaphragm mic. (2) seems to split the difference, but I wonder if the B5s are up to the challenge.

I will in the future be recording mostly Christian music, from folk to light jazz to rock in style. No hip-hop, country, or electronic music, so the mics need to be as good as I can get.

For this particular project, I need drum overheads, acoustic guitar micing, and a good mic for lead vocals.

So... any good suggestions? Could I use the B3s is stereo mic applications, or are they going to color the sound too much over the use of a pair of C4s or the Behringer B5s? Are the C4s such good mics at this price that I should just buy them and wait until the next recording project to get a large-diaphragm mic for vocals? Am I missing anything?

 

[Asuka98]

Just so you can answer better, I already have:

4 Audix OM2
an Audix Fusion 4 Drum Pack (3 F10, 1 F12)
a Shure SM57

The OM2 sounds pretty good on my voice (not stellar, but I think its a problem with the source not the mic...), which is why I'm even considering not getting a large-diaphragm mic this time around.

 

[scrubs]

There are lots of similar posts if you use the search feature.

FWIW, I'll try to give you my opinion.

1. How important are stereo overheads and/or stereo acoustic guitar recordings?

If not important, get the best large diaphragm condenser you can afford (multi-pattern would be a plus) and use that for everything. B3 is a possibility, as would be the CAD M179, but I don't think either of those would be a great go-to vocal mic. Also, the Shure KSM series (27, 32, 44) and the Audio Technica 4040, 4050 (the 4050 sometimes goes on e-bay for around $400 new, and I think 8th Street music had some B-Stock ones for $350 recently). If you could go up to $500, the Studio Projects T3 would be on my list.

If you want stereo possibilities, I'd get a pair of small condensers and a large condenser. A pair of MXL604 with switchable caps are around $200. That would leave you another $200 for a vocal condenser. Popular choices in that pricerange would be Studio Projects C1 or Rode NT1A (both bright mics). A more neutral choice would be the CAD M179.

 

[Asuka98]

FWIW, I'll try to give you my opinion.

Thank you.

I talked to a good friend of mine here who's been doing this a lot longer than I have, and he pointed out to me (what is probably obvious to most of you) that mics are like instruments. There's a lot bigger difference between an SD and an LD mic than there is between variations of SD mics costing with $100 of each other. His recommendation for me was to buy the SDs and learn to use them, then when I started wanting a mic that I had to EQ less to do some listening tests and get an LD I liked.

So I bought the C4s. They arrived today and I've been playing with them a little with my acoustic guitar (a Taylor 414 with a great sound) and they absolutely blow me away. My ears are not what they need to be yet, but just hearing a mic reproduce the character of my guitar without hardly any effort is amazing.

There are lots of similar posts if you use the search feature.

So, obviously this will touch close to some nerves but (donning flame retardant suit) here it goes.

I know for people who read and post regularly on a board about mics that you see a lot of the same questions over and over, in particular people looking for that magic $100 mic that will turn their scrawny little 16 year-old voice in Barry White or whatever. I thank scrubs for at least coming down and giving me an opinion, even if he did have to preface it with an obligatory RTFM.

But I did search. I searched for an hour. I found exactly two posts on the C4s that weren't "they suck" or "they rock, try them!" but had actual discussion in them:

1) a very long thread that took me almost 40 minutes to get through involving a person who has apparently been banned from the board asking SP to comment on whether the Behr B5s were C4 clones and

2) a post in which the C4s are talked about in great glowing terms while Oktava MC012 are blasted for quality control

Now, I understand that all of you on the board with knowledge are very busy recording people and reading and posting about mics on this forum. Being a software developer by trade I understand that it gets extrememly annoying to hold a relatively detailed discussion about something with a peer on a forum where everybody keeps asking "mac or linux? windoze blows!".

So I tried VERY HARD not to ask the same "what's the best mic, doodz?" kind of question. In particular I asked:

Could I use the B3s is stereo mic applications, or are they going to color the sound too much over the use of a pair of C4s or the Behringer B5s?

No answer to this. My friend here pointed out that any LDs are going to color the sound more than SDs. This fact is probably obvious to most of you (and was after I thought about it) but it wasn't to me at the time. Additionally, while there were comments about the B3 in drum micing threads, they were all "try it... you'll like it!" with no comments as to why I might or might not. Not a terribly useful search, and not an answer to my question.

Are the C4s such good mics at this price that I should just buy them and wait until the next recording project to get a large-diaphragm mic for vocals?

The only threads discussing the C4 in depth vs. the MC012 or the B5s that I could find that weren't 50+ posts long didn't talk about if the C4s were notably better or worse than other chinese mics. I did find information on that in this board... in the Harvey thread about quality control on the MC012 GC mics, which I just stumbled across. It didn't come up in any of my searches about the C4.

I'm not trying to sound like I'm complaining. I really thank scrubs for his advice, because it made me think about how important I was making stereo micing, which was good advice.

But my point is that it is easy as an expert to believe that you're getting these questions ALL THE TIME when in reality you're discussion relevant pieces of information that are only relevant because you already know the answer. Not all of us do, and frankly, learning about mic theory is really hard from a forum, because it is not laid out in that organizational manner.

So next time you're tempted to post "Use the search button, n00b!" think about how long it would take to type an answer to add to the FAQ. Also, board administrators, if you're constantly seeing people saying RTFM, maybe make more than the last day's worth of posts visible, so people can browse the last week or two to make sure they aren't asking a question that comes up all the time.

Rant off.

 

[dgatwood]

But my point is that it is easy as an expert to believe that you're getting these questions ALL THE TIME when in reality you're discussion relevant pieces of information that are only relevant because you already know the answer. Not all of us do, and frankly, learning about mic theory is really hard from a forum, because it is not laid out in that organizational manner.

So next time you're tempted to post "Use the search button, n00b!" think about how long it would take to type an answer to add to the FAQ. Also, board administrators, if you're constantly seeing people saying RTFM, maybe make more than the last day's worth of posts visible, so people can browse the last week or two to make sure they aren't asking a question that comes up all the time.

And before you tell somebody to search for something, make sure the HR search tools can actually search for it. It seems to have a three character minimum, making searches for almost all of studio projects' product line an exercise in futility....

 

[scrubs]

There is a flaw/problem with the search feature in that terms like 'C4' are ignored in the search string because they are too short. Obviously, that's a problem on a music board where many products have short letter/number monikers. Generally, if you scroll to the bottom of a page, though, there are links to similar threads, which may also be helpful.

 

[Reggie]

Thank you.

I talked to a good friend of mine...
blah blah blah
......

But my point is that it is easy as an expert to believe that you're getting these questions ALL THE TIME when in reality you're discussion relevant pieces of information that are only relevant because you already know the answer. Not all of us do, and frankly, learning about mic theory is really hard from a forum, because it is not laid out in that organizational manner.

So next time you're tempted to post "Use the search button, n00b!" think about how long it would take to type an answer to add to the FAQ. Also, board administrators, if you're constantly seeing people saying RTFM, maybe make more than the last day's worth of posts visible, so people can browse the last week or two to make sure they aren't asking a question that comes up all the time.

Rant off.

I appreciate the fact that you are obviously not a numbskull. But I think you are overlooking the fact that every mic has its purpose, and everyone has a different way of hearing them, and everyone has different tastes in sound. So for a lot of this kind of stuff, there is stuff that is kind of similar in a given price range, and then better stuff as your price range goes higher; but there isn't typically a clearcut answer as to "which mic is better." I mean, try describing the characteristics of your own hearing; and the character of sound that you typically like. I don't think I could describe such a thing even if I knew!

OK. So, the only useful advice I can give is that small diaphram condensors are not that great for recording vocals (at least for me), so I wouldn't expect much out of them for this. The C4's are fine mics for the price, and for situations where SDCs are useful. For a cheap LDC, the C1 has been quite useful to me; and the B1 may be good too but I haven't tried it.
Also, God hates Behr*nger.


BTW: This quote is hilarious to me--

I will in the future be recording mostly Christian music, from folk to light jazz to rock in style. No hip-hop, country, or electronic music, so the mics need to be as good as I can get.