Mic pros, answer me this: Close or far?

  • Thread starter Thread starter swindle
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Steve who?

My apologies. I have NO idea who this Steve Lamansky is. But then again, I would admit to being in that 'New kid on the block' category that was mentioned earlier. This Mr. Lamansky may very well be the world's leading microphone expert. I suppose if I had read the credits at the end of "Bounce" starring Huey Lewis, I would have realized,...oh, wait, I didn't even see that piece of shit "film". Anyhow, no offense Mantis but I think I'm going to go with the big guys on this one. Seeing as how they have hundreds of posts and you only have 2, well, you know what I'm getting at.
Back to the subject at hand. I do know from experience that the further back my vocalist is the more I get those crappy reflections that sound as if we're recording in some sort of converted closet,..oh wait, we are. I can get some nice vocals though if I keep the vocalist close, I hate to say it but I have had them up there around "3.5"!! and it came out alright.
 
Huh??? Karaoke industry???????

...and that relates to sound engineering how???? :confused:
The average karaoke mic is about on par with Radio Shack mics.... :eek:

You talk about gurus - try Stephen Paul - now, there's a mic guru....

Bruce
 
Re: Re: up close and personal

Mantis said:
How have you not heard of Steve Lamansky? He's like the guru of microphones. Most recently, Steve was a consultant on the movie "Bounce" with Gwyneth Paltrow & Huey Lewis. He's especially well known in the karoke insudtry. I just got off my Startac cellphone with him and he stands by 3.5 inches. 7-10 inches might be too far away, giving off a soundhall effect, at least from my experience.
Giving the answer "It depends" is such a cop out. There's either a) the standard, or b) the nonstandard. Swindle, I say go for the standard. I'm sure you haven't heard of George Massenburg. But I'll bet a million dollars you know Steve Lamansky. Final answer - Up close, 3.5 inches. With a windscreen, you can stretch it to 4.
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Wow, that's it; a consultant on "Bounce" and a kareoke expert?

OK, Mantis, go to http://www.allmusic.com and type in Al Schmitt (disregard Jr. - that's his son). Go the full list of credits (click on "click here for more") - about 4 pages long and seven Grammys.

After that, type in George Massenburg and go to the full list of his credits (click on "click here for more"), then come back here, and we'll talk some more, OK?

OK, Bruce, now where the hell is Ed (sonusman) when I need him? This is getting fucking stupid.

Mantis, maybe you're right. After all, ALL singers are alike, all songs are alike, and all mics are alike, so why not have a simple standard distance that works for everybody? Hey, it's starting to make sense to me.
 
Oh c'mon....

...he lost all credibility at the word "karaoke" and calling this Steve-guy a "mic guru"....

We need Ed for the big stuff - not these little guys!!!

Bruce
 
Whoo, look at the two big heads trying to gang up on me? Where's Ed when you need him. I am so scared. Answer me this, who died and made you guys the god of experts in sound engineering? Be fortunate Steve's not here himself to put you in your place. I went to the links, not that mindblowing the way you hype Mr. Schmitt. What authority do you have ridiculing the karoke industry? Tell that to the folks in Japan and you'll know how big and technical it is. Way bigger than what you Circuit City boys are doing.
 
Gods???

Harvey? quite possibly... me? I'm not in Harvey's league...

But I do know the difference between mindless chatter and true recording skills.....

No one's heard of this Steve guy... yet you call him a "guru".... then you mention the "karaoke industry"...

Karaoke is about as relevant to the recording industry as a Walmart is.........

Al Schmitt is a top-notch engineer with credentials up the ying-yang, and Stephen Paul is a very well-known mic guru........... neither names do you seem to be familiar with.... so yeah - you come off sounding pretty much like a wanna-be.... plus, your advice is questionable for someone who doesn't seem to have the experience to back themselves up...............

What's your involvment in the industry? What gear do YOU use? C'mon, back yourself up!

Bruce
 
Re: Steve who?

swindle said:
I think I'm going to go with the big guys on this one. Seeing as how they have hundreds of posts and you only have 2, well, you know what I'm getting at.
Back to the subject at hand. I do know from experience that the further back my vocalist is the more I get those crappy reflections that sound as if we're recording in some sort of converted closet,..oh wait, we are. I can get some nice vocals though if I keep the vocalist close, I hate to say it but I have had them up there around "3.5"!! and it came out alright.
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Well, I'm only a junior member here (as of today, I'm no longer a "Newbie"), but I do have a little experience in the music industry, as an equipment designer, songwriter, producer, engineer, and performer.

It really depends on what kind of singer you're working with and the style of music. Sometimes I'll use a Neumann or an RCA 44BX from about 18" away, and sometimes I'll use a Shure SM-7 at "point-blank" range (0 inches away).

This month, we're working with 17 different bands, mostly rock and heavy metal, but even then, we don't have any standard "rules" about anything. Even when they use our drum set, I'll use anywhere from 3 mics to 12 mics, depending on the drummer.

I also have 5 different kick drum mics, half a dozen different mics just for snare, and 10 sets of matched mics just for overheads.

Is there a "standard for miking drums, too?

I have about 15 different "vocal" mics to choose from. Most of them are expensive - some aren't. I use them all pretty regularly. I don't own a "standard" vocal mic, I guess.

But if a "standard" distance works for you, go for it.
 
Mantis said:
Whoo, look at the two big heads trying to gang up on me? Where's Ed when you need him. I am so scared. Answer me this, who died and made you guys the god of experts in sound engineering? Be fortunate Steve's not here himself to put you in your place. I went to the links, not that mindblowing the way you hype Mr. Schmitt. What authority do you have ridiculing the karoke industry? Tell that to the folks in Japan and you'll know how big and technical it is. Way bigger than what you Circuit City boys are doing.
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Geez, this happens everytime I post here in homerec. OK, Mantis, you now have the mic forum all to yourself. It's back to lurking for me (and I'll continue to send emails to anybody that wants my advice). At 64, I have a lot better things to do with my time than argue with people.

And I'm not ridiculing the "kareoke industry", but it's not a part of the recording studio process - it's for live entertainment. Mostly Shure 555s and SM-58s, both good mics for that purpose, and yeah, 3.5" ain't a bad rule of thumb for those mics, unless Linda Ronstadt decides to get up at a kareoke place, and then you better send out for replacement diaphragms.

Finally, "It depends" wasn't a "cop out" answer. I thought I gave a pretty full description of when different distances were most appropriate and why.

But that's it for me - I'm outa here. :(
 
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Hmmm... Harvey...

...you seem to "draw" a certain crowd!!!!!!!! :)

I see what you mean!

Bruce

:)
 
Back off Mantis ...
You clearly have no clue what you're talking about. 3.5" industry standard for vocal recording? Maybe in the karaoke world ... let me drink a lot of saki and test it out.

Quite frankly, I think you're pullin our chains with this crap. Coming out of nowhere to push the "karaoke industry standard" for microphone technique and try and debunk a legitimate answer from someone *very* experienced in the recording world. If it is a put on, I guess it's kinda funny ... but NOT when it pisses a guy off so much that he is unwilling to contribute any further... everybody loses that way. The guy can't post here without getting attacked by someone. That is total bullshit ... leave him alone. I want Harvey to come back and post here because he has a lot to offer all of us. With you ... all I see is flame crap and we got enough of that shit already.


Harvey don't let this guy bother you, I think he's trying to have some fun with you. Too bad it's not fun for you.
 
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Re: Hmmm... Harvey...

Blue Bear Sound said:
...you seem to "draw" a certain crowd!!!!!!!! :)

I see what you mean!

Bruce

:)
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Yeah, you'd think that after 48 years in the music business, I'da learned not to get into these silly fights, but nooooooooo..... It's just that I hate misinformation so much. A bad answer is worse than no answer at all. I guess I better go off and brush up on my "people skills". :)

Sorry about the ranting, everybody. I'll just shut up, lurk, and learn.
 
c7sus said:
Please don't recede into the background here Mr. Gerst.

Some of us here are much more willing to listen and learn than some of our posts may let on.
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As I told Bruce earlier in this thread, I swore I'd never post here again, but I did. I'm still not sure why. It seems that every time I post something here that I think may be helpful, I keep getting my head handed to me. I'm really not used to that. Maybe it takes a tougher skin than I have. I don't know. I try to simply post facts, as accurately as I can, and offer reasons why or alternatives. Doesn't seem to make much difference - I still get trashed.

Why do I bother posting at all? Hell, I'm 64 and I've lived a life that most people can't even imagine. I still can't believe how lucky I've been over the years. I figure it's my job to pass on the knowledge that people gave me so generously when I was first starting out.

But almost every time I've tried to do that, things seem to dissolve into a flaming war. On every other board I've visited, I don't get trashed like I do here. And I try not to come off sounding "holier than thou", but so far, nothing seems to work here - every time I open my mouth, I get blasted.

Maybe I should just ignore it when someone gives bad or incomplete advice, or they start trashing me. It's very hard for me to do that, but maybe it's the only way I can keep my sanity and still offer advice if people want it.

So far, I've been accused of trying to pass myself off as an "audio god", being in cahoots with the Sound Room in stealing Oktava mics, trashed about my Marshall mic opinions, being a know-it-all about the RNC compressor (I'm currently writing their new manual) and god knows what else I've been accused of.
 
Re: up close and personal

Mantis said:
The mic pick-up pattern has nothing to do with it. The mic has to be up close, no further than 3.5 inches away. It's a standard in this industry. I asked Steve Lamansky, who is like the guru of microphones, and he even agrees with me on this.
Click to expand...

If needed Mr. Mantis I will send you via email a recording done eight inches from a mic and you will see the diference between a cardioid pattern recording and a hyper which is more open and roomy.


Hearvy for a 64 year old please show an example of to
the younger men here at how to ignore assholes.
Use your life experinces :).

I think Mantis is trying on purpose to stir up things up and has lurked around before knowing this might annoy
you.
You can do what you like and disapear again but that is
copying out in my book (not writing "it depends").

Mantis,

Have you ever tried yourself ? or do you only do things cause Mr. Lamansky says so. I am willing to send you a sample of how it does effect the sound. I HAVE tried !.
 
Harvey...

Well... you could do what I do - if I'm in a particularly volatile mood, I think of what Fletcher would say and try to emulate that (it's worked when it needed to!).... :D

If I'm in a more benign mood, I simply ignore the nonsense, and respond only to the good stuff....

The wanna-bes usually run away tail-between-legs if they're caught in a wanna-be-ism.... it doesn't take long...

Come to think of it, I think Ed has a similar problem - he has to get his back up from time to time too when some newbie with a Porta2 thinks they're an engineer! It is frustrating when all you want to do is share your experience for others' benefit.... doesn't mean everyone will always agree (we all have our own experience to draw on as well, of course), but there is greater benefit in the diversity of shared knowledge....

Just know that there are many here who do appreciate and will benefit from your experience and knowledge....

I know I still learn a lot and I'm not without some experience myself!

Cheers Harvey! Have a beer or two on the house - Dragon's buying!!! ;)

:D

Bruce
 
Please don't get me wrong, I love this place and most of the people here. This is the best laid out board I've ever seen. I check this mic forum and The Rack several times every day, if I'm not in a session. I'm not as aggressive as Fletcher and I can't pull off that style of writing.

I guess on rec.audio.pro, alt.music.4-track, recording. org, EQs forum, ProAudio's forum, and the artistPRO forum, there are enough people there who know me and my background, so I can avoid fights like this. Maybe I should list some of my so-called "credentials". I've just never been in a situation where I've had to do that before. Frankly, it's embarrassing to me. I'm really at a loss here as to how to proceed, if at all.

I'd love to stay, I'd love to help, but not if I'm gonna get slagged every time I open my mouth. My life and what I've done are pretty much an open book, but I don't need anyone spitting on the pages.
 
First of all, I came here to offer my expert advice to swindle. I mention my friend Steve Lamansky, who is like the guru of microphones. Then all I've been reading is karoke bashing by all you haters out there. What's up with that? I thought this board was about helping each other, not ridiculing and making fools of yourselves with contracting comments. The techs in Tokyo will get a kick out of you guys.

That's funny, I just did a web search and this came up....
http://micguru.webjump.com/
 
Mantis,

Recording issues are an audio art and not a visual.

To write that so and so said has NO meaning whats so ever. Even if H. Gerst would have said it...I would have
insisted in hearing it first before I come to conclusions.

I would suggest two things.
Have Mr. Lamansky come here and debate it with the
members here, or...... prove him right yourself !.
Explain how and why and if you get an argument then add clips. That is what it's all about.
People should be more responsable and understand that if they can take the time to post and make strong
claims and diss others opinion they they might have to one day back it up with proof. Be it anybody. If they dont have the time then let them not take the time to write as well. MHO.


Since I am the one that posted the issue of patterns
(that You claim have nothing to do with it), I have no problems proving it and offered you to hear it for
yourself.
I await your proof. If you have none then that will prove a point.
 
Would you mind telling us where you did a search and what for, that happened to turn up that webpage? It's funny, my searches don't turn up anything..

I think my favorite part of the page is:

"Beverly Hills Cop III "Movie Soundtrack" - (Please note: I didn't actually 'work' on this film but I was almost offered the chance to.)" -Steve Lamansky

lol...I haven't actually "had" a hit record yet, but believe me, I've almost had the chance to make one!

-travis
 
Harvey, this Mantis person obviously is a "troll". He hasn't posted anything else than the posts in this thread, he is obviously incorrect in everything he sais, and the posts are so totally pathetic it's just silly.

Ignore him, he is just trying to make you angry, for some reason. It's probably FT or one of his friends, ar another person of the same low IQ.

The "home page" fo this Steve Lamansky is only one page long, and has the also obviously unserious credits:

"¯ MAJOR motion picture "BOUNCE" Starring Huey Lewis and Gwynith Paltrow". Key consultant's assistant. 2000
¯ Nickelodeon "Name Your Adventure" May 1994
¯ World Figure Skating 1998 (Minneapolis) - Vee Corporation -
¯ Energy Conservation Kiosk (Featured at the Mall of America) -
¯ Lead Sound Designer St. Paul County Karaoke
¯ Beverly Hills Cop III "Movie Soundtrack" - (Please note: I didn't actually 'work' on this film but I was almost offered the chance to.) "

Steve Lamansky does not exist. The homepage is made by Mantis. He is just trying to fuck you over. He probably thinks he is funny.
 
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