C
chessrock
Banned
I'm pretty much in the same boat as everyone else on this subject, and I'm guessing it's the one "glue" that probably binds the most people on the BBS: We want better preamps to plug our mics in to. Just like the rest of you, I've auditioned just about everything there is to audition in my quest to assemble the cheapskate poor-man's studio of the century. 
From the many hours/days worth of research, auditioning, and asking around, I've come to one conclusion: There are some good-sounding preamps available in the very affordable price range of around $200. And there are some GREAT sounding preamps out there in the $2,000 range. And little exists in between. Nothing out there in most of our budget ranges can beat the M-audio DMP-3 for the price. And the preamps on alot of our Mackie mixers? Very usable.
Unfortunately, some of us fall more in to an in-between category where $500 to $1000 certainly isn't out of our range. We just want to know that the difference between that and our Mackies will be justified.
Unfortunately, the common wisdom still seems to be spend $200 or spend $2,000. The reason is that there really hasn't been anything in the in-between range that was noticeably better for the money. Certainly a lot of manufacturers have tried and failed. Still, nothing that sells for $600 appears to be a big enough step up from the Mackie XDRs to justify the cost. Now the DMP3 makes things even more interesting. At $200, it flat-out matches or beats anything in the "in-between" range.
But what about this little Burr-brown outfitted wonder known as the Grace Design, you ask? Although you'll get a better sound for sure, the gap between that and your Mackie mixer is not going to leave you breathless. How much better is it, really? I mean those Mackies are still sounding pretty good. If you need evidence, have a listen to the accoustic guitar recordings in the Mic forum comparing the C1 to an NTK. The preamp: Mackie XDR. Damn. Sounds nice, doesn't it?
The Grace is a curious sort, to say the least. From the info. I have gathered from other audio engineer-types within the industry, the GD still isn't the holy grail of $600 pres. It is, however, supposedly a noticeable step in the right direction. I've never spoken with a gear snob who put his nose in the air at one, so that's a very good sign.
Never heard one bubbling with joy over them, either, and that concerns me. Furthermore, the camps seem to be divided on whether a chip-based design is capable of delivering the goods one would get from a discreet unit. Hell, my VC6Q and DMP2 have decent chips.
Alot of you are probably thinking "What about the Joemeek VC1Q, or the Peavey VMP2?," etc. And it's a good thing if you were thinking that. My only problem is that what we like about both of these models is the color they provide. If I buy the Joemeek, the preamp will certainly be good, but it's really the color of the compressor and EQ that my ears are liking. The preamp alone is just, well, a good preamp. Same idea with the Peaveys: I think we like it's thick, tube flavor. I REALLY like it's thick tube flavor, by the way. Great for a lot of applications and music styles, but not necessarily for everything. That's my only beef.
A popular option is to just enjoy your Mackies and/or DMP3's untill you can afford something noticeably better, like a Great River, an Averill-racked Nevie Campbell , or anything that Mercenary Audio might have on it's delicious yet upscale menu.
While the jury may still be out on some of the others, I still have yet to speak with a single person in the know who doesn't rave about the Great River. Harvey Gerst pointed this out to us a few months ago, and most of the second opinions I'm getting seem to confirm his thoughts (as seems to be the case on most of the things that guy says). Unfortunately, at $1,750.00, that one tends lean more towards the $2,000 side of the scale for a lot of our tastes.
So is there hope for the "in-between" range of, say, $600-700? The only likely scenarios I can possibly see go like this:
* Sytek wisens up and releases a two-channel, or even a one-channel box. Granted, it wouldn't fall in to the magical $600 range, wouldn't be discreet, but who cares? !! $400 for two channels worth of Sytek would just plain kick ass.
* Jim Williams at Audio Upgrades partners with another manufacturer to release a cheaper "package" for his preamp boards (Hey, maybe he should get on the phone with the guys as 797 ).
* The RNMP comes out sometime within the next century and lives up to it's hype.
* Great River comes out with a simplified, single-channel "MP-1."
The Great River idea is the one I am crossing my fingers for. Were it to happen, hypothetically, we would be looking at the Homerecer's Holy Grail. A legitimate, no-brainer step up at that magical price range of $600-$700 that has illuded us all and confounded so many manufacturers who have tried and failed with their lame attempts. (See Focusrite Green & Platinum, DBX Silver, others).
Judging from the amount of people I personally know, as well as the amount of posts I see here on this subject, this is something that could mean a lot of moo-la for our friends at Great River. I just wonder if they would be prepared to handle the kind of demand this would place on their company. Up untill now, they've probably enjoyed a very robust yet manageable level of business. The MP1 would thrust them very much in to the mainstream, with thousands of homewreckers and project studioists emerging from their basements in to the sunlight, buying them up by the truck loads.
My gut feeling is that Great River is probably happy with their current market niche. Neither Sytek nor Audio Upgrades appears to be ready to play with the big boys, nor does it seem like they'd want to. The RNMP holds the most promise, but Mark McQuicken is probably too much of a perfectionist to be the kind of business man this kind of demand is going to place on him. My guess here is that by the time his RNMP hits the streets, someone else will seize the opportunity and beat him to the punch . . . or worse yet, it won't possibly be able to live up to all of it's outrageous hype.
I sure hope he proves me wrong and rubs my ugly face in it good.
From the many hours/days worth of research, auditioning, and asking around, I've come to one conclusion: There are some good-sounding preamps available in the very affordable price range of around $200. And there are some GREAT sounding preamps out there in the $2,000 range. And little exists in between. Nothing out there in most of our budget ranges can beat the M-audio DMP-3 for the price. And the preamps on alot of our Mackie mixers? Very usable.
Unfortunately, some of us fall more in to an in-between category where $500 to $1000 certainly isn't out of our range. We just want to know that the difference between that and our Mackies will be justified.
Unfortunately, the common wisdom still seems to be spend $200 or spend $2,000. The reason is that there really hasn't been anything in the in-between range that was noticeably better for the money. Certainly a lot of manufacturers have tried and failed. Still, nothing that sells for $600 appears to be a big enough step up from the Mackie XDRs to justify the cost. Now the DMP3 makes things even more interesting. At $200, it flat-out matches or beats anything in the "in-between" range.
But what about this little Burr-brown outfitted wonder known as the Grace Design, you ask? Although you'll get a better sound for sure, the gap between that and your Mackie mixer is not going to leave you breathless. How much better is it, really? I mean those Mackies are still sounding pretty good. If you need evidence, have a listen to the accoustic guitar recordings in the Mic forum comparing the C1 to an NTK. The preamp: Mackie XDR. Damn. Sounds nice, doesn't it?
The Grace is a curious sort, to say the least. From the info. I have gathered from other audio engineer-types within the industry, the GD still isn't the holy grail of $600 pres. It is, however, supposedly a noticeable step in the right direction. I've never spoken with a gear snob who put his nose in the air at one, so that's a very good sign.
Never heard one bubbling with joy over them, either, and that concerns me. Furthermore, the camps seem to be divided on whether a chip-based design is capable of delivering the goods one would get from a discreet unit. Hell, my VC6Q and DMP2 have decent chips.
Alot of you are probably thinking "What about the Joemeek VC1Q, or the Peavey VMP2?," etc. And it's a good thing if you were thinking that. My only problem is that what we like about both of these models is the color they provide. If I buy the Joemeek, the preamp will certainly be good, but it's really the color of the compressor and EQ that my ears are liking. The preamp alone is just, well, a good preamp. Same idea with the Peaveys: I think we like it's thick, tube flavor. I REALLY like it's thick tube flavor, by the way.
Great for a lot of applications and music styles, but not necessarily for everything. That's my only beef.A popular option is to just enjoy your Mackies and/or DMP3's untill you can afford something noticeably better, like a Great River, an Averill-racked Nevie Campbell
, or anything that Mercenary Audio might have on it's delicious yet upscale menu. While the jury may still be out on some of the others, I still have yet to speak with a single person in the know who doesn't rave about the Great River. Harvey Gerst pointed this out to us a few months ago, and most of the second opinions I'm getting seem to confirm his thoughts (as seems to be the case on most of the things that guy says). Unfortunately, at $1,750.00, that one tends lean more towards the $2,000 side of the scale for a lot of our tastes.
So is there hope for the "in-between" range of, say, $600-700? The only likely scenarios I can possibly see go like this:
* Sytek wisens up and releases a two-channel, or even a one-channel box. Granted, it wouldn't fall in to the magical $600 range, wouldn't be discreet, but who cares? !! $400 for two channels worth of Sytek would just plain kick ass.
* Jim Williams at Audio Upgrades partners with another manufacturer to release a cheaper "package" for his preamp boards (Hey, maybe he should get on the phone with the guys as 797
).* The RNMP comes out sometime within the next century and lives up to it's hype.
* Great River comes out with a simplified, single-channel "MP-1."
The Great River idea is the one I am crossing my fingers for. Were it to happen, hypothetically, we would be looking at the Homerecer's Holy Grail. A legitimate, no-brainer step up at that magical price range of $600-$700 that has illuded us all and confounded so many manufacturers who have tried and failed with their lame attempts. (See Focusrite Green & Platinum, DBX Silver, others).
Judging from the amount of people I personally know, as well as the amount of posts I see here on this subject, this is something that could mean a lot of moo-la for our friends at Great River. I just wonder if they would be prepared to handle the kind of demand this would place on their company. Up untill now, they've probably enjoyed a very robust yet manageable level of business. The MP1 would thrust them very much in to the mainstream, with thousands of homewreckers and project studioists emerging from their basements in to the sunlight, buying them up by the truck loads.
My gut feeling is that Great River is probably happy with their current market niche. Neither Sytek nor Audio Upgrades appears to be ready to play with the big boys, nor does it seem like they'd want to. The RNMP holds the most promise, but Mark McQuicken is probably too much of a perfectionist to be the kind of business man this kind of demand is going to place on him. My guess here is that by the time his RNMP hits the streets, someone else will seize the opportunity and beat him to the punch . . . or worse yet, it won't possibly be able to live up to all of it's outrageous hype.
I sure hope he proves me wrong and rubs my ugly face in it good.
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