MIC PRE's: mackie vlz pro seiries vs. DMP2

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shackrock

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Just interested me....how does everything think these mic preamps compare:

M- Audio DMP2
Mackie's VLZ PRO Mixer Series (for example, lets just say the 1202..ha).


Holla back.
p.s. I hope this is an ok forum to put it in - we really dont have a "pre" forum...
 
shackrock said:
Just interested me....how does everything think these mic preamps compare:

M- Audio DMP2
Mackie's VLZ PRO Mixer Series (for example, lets just say the 1202..ha).


Holla back.
p.s. I hope this is an ok forum to put it in - we really dont have a "pre" forum...

Thye Mackie's pre-amps are bottom of the barrel. Do you mean DMP3? If you do, the DMP3 is a good entry-level preamp for some things. If you mean a DMP2, I have no idea.
 
I think the DMP2 compares favorably to the Mackies.....very clean with headroom for days....its only drawback is how easy it is to clip the input with certain mics.....other than that, very decent pre......they cleaned up these issues with the DMP3.......
 
yeah i got the dmp2...but I need a mixer with good pre's - and I figured if I got a mixer with AWESOME pre's, maybe I would begin to use my DMP2 less and less (and yeah, i gotta use -10db and -20db pads with that pre all the time).

so, how could i even take a step up from the vlz pro series, but still not get a rediculous amount of mixer inputs? (like, 4 pre's on a board is fine, 6 is good though if i must..haha)...
 
What if you just bought micspres and used your mixer just to mix? Instead of buying a mixer for micpres?
 
mixer with nice pre's is a must - cuz I want to mix 4 of my drum mics down to 2 panned tracks....haha
 
I'm a bit of a heretic when it comes to mic pres. I like the Mackie pres for good basic sound. To me, they are kind of like an sm57 -- they don't change the sound much. They may or may not be fantastic, but they rarely sound bad.

I prefer using an uncolored preamp, then adding color later as desired.

Using the Mackie preamps (the XDR ones in particular) from the insert outs (bypassing the eqs, etc.) directly to the A/Ds gives very basic uncolored sound.

Note that a number of huge hit records have been recorded using Mackie boards. Bottom line gets back to the music, not the equipment.

-lee-
 
shackrock said:
mixer with nice pre's is a must - cuz I want to mix 4 of my drum mics down to 2 panned tracks....haha

im sure you are doing this out of economic necessity (and i for one understand that), but im sure their are other ways around this.....what soundcard, mics, and pres do you have now?
 
Gidge said:
I think the DMP2 compares favorably to the Mackies.....very clean with headroom for days....its only drawback is how easy it is to clip the input with certain mics.....other than that, very decent pre......they cleaned up these issues with the DMP3.......

While Headroom and Max. Input aren't exactly the same thing, aren't you essentially saying the DMP2 doesn't have all that high of headroom?
 
Quality comparisons of eachother listed below aside:

Mackie VLZ PRO mixers are about the lowest budget I'd consider with 4-6 pres in a mixer format; although, you can look further into Spirit and Heath-Allen and might find something around the same price. Otherwise, I believe the next step up in budget is the DaviSound TB-5.
 
Recording Engineer said:
aren't you essentially saying the DMP2 doesn't have all that high of headroom?

Basically. :D What he's saying it would have great headroom if it weren't for the fact that it has no headroom.

The answer to the dmp2 vs. Mackie question is pretty damn imaterial and inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

But if you absolutely must know, then it would depend on a lot of factors; namely are you using condensers or dynamics . . . are you using them simulatneously or track-at-a-time, what are the phantom requirements of your mics and do you have attenuator pads?

There are good reasons as to why these are important questions.
 
Damn. I really don't know, but if there are good reasons why those are important questions, I'd suspect that the DMP2 isn't a preamp worth considering regardless of how low your budget is?
 
like i said, "with certain mics" the input seems to be clipped easily......with most mics theres an ample amount of headroom......

also, when somebody asks a question, theres very few times ill consider it "pretty damn imaterial and inconsequential".....
 
Isn't the DMP3 a much improved pre....

....(relatively) to the DMP2???

I know you can get the DMP2's for cheap now but didn't they kind of change the components in the DMP3??

-mike
 
The DMP3 is based on the Burr Brown INA 163 chip (same as the Grace 101). I don't know that the DMP2 is.
 
Gidge said:
like i said, "with certain mics" the input seems to be clipped easily......with most mics theres an ample amount of headroom......

also, when somebody asks a question, theres very few times ill consider it "pretty damn imaterial and inconsequential".....

The question isn't necessarily inconsequential, but the difference between the two mic pres -- in most cases -- will be.

The Mackie has a lot more headroom. Tons more. But the sound kinda' thins out a bit the higher you have to crank the gain -- hence it's reputation for sounding thin at times. But for most personal-studio type projects, they're both very good inexpensive mic pres when used within their respective limits.

The dmp2 doesn't crank out the necessary phantom power for a lot of the more power-needy condensers. A lot of them will be just fine with it, though, particularly electrets and some smaller diaphragms. But it is something to beware of. Not to mention the input handling is pretty meager, so you shouldn't be using it on very loud sources or with hotter mics unless you've got an attenuator pad. . . . Which, by the way, might create even more problems since most attenuator pads will cut down even more on the amount of phantom juice getting to the mic.

Both the headroom and phantom power issues were addressed with the dmp3. Other than that, it has basically the same burr-brown opamp . . . with the dmp2 having the ina103 -- basically an earlier, discontinued version of the 163, but for audio purposes, they're mostly identical.

Even for a very picky person, these mic pres are fine. They're just flimsily-built and Quality Control isn't nearly as good as with most other M-Audio gear, so you have to keep your expectations in line.

This is about the 3rd or 4th time Shackrock has asked this question in the last couple years. I'm not sure what new and earthshattering info he's expecting to glean this time around. I've basically ansered it the same because the answer still hasn't really changed. :D
 
Am I missing something? Why cant you get 4 channels of decent pre's, record, then mix them thru your VLZ? Or am I reading your ambiguous sentence incorrectly about upgrading something you dont have?
 
It just so happens that I have owned and used the DMP2, the Mackies, and a couple other high end pres (Great River and Earthworks)

The Mackies are OK, but impart a slight "brittleness" to the sounds. Some like this, because it also sounds "crisp" and "clean". I think the best way to get a good sound from them is to not push them anywhere near clipping. leave AT LEAST -3dB at the peaks.

The DMP2 was slightly, but noticeably better (IMO). Its sound was much more neutral and natural. I never had headroom problems, using any of the mikes I tried, but I am a believer in not pushing things to the edge.

By way of comparison: I think the DPM2 compares quite favorably to the highest-end pres in sound. It is very cheaply and fragily built mechanically, however, and that counts for something. I eventually sold the Great River and DMP2 just because I didn't need or use them much. I kept the Earthworks and i also have an Audio-buddy for portable work.

The difference between ANY of these pres is not as geat as the difference between microphones and mike placements. If i were starting all over, I would get Mackie Mixer, use its pres, and spend the money saved on mikes ! ;)

In fact, i wouldn't even get the mixer. I would use the Pres on the VS2480 ! :)
 
I hate how answers are never straight forward around this place...geez.. haha.

Well, I have a behringer mx802a right now (and it's shit). When recording a band, namely the drum set, I am as follows:

2 mxl603s as overheads, into behringer
2 sm58's micing the toms, into behringer
^^^^^^^^^ are mixed down to 2 stereo tracks, into delta44

kick with atpro25 into DMP2 (-20db pad).
snare with sm57 into DMP2 (-10db pad).


and that's my drum set.

Shit does that behringer not bring out what my drum set COULD soundlike. even putting the 2 overheads into the DMP2 gives loads of a difference. so I was considering upgrading to the Mackie 1202 VLZ pro...

that's why this question comes about in the first place. haha.

2ndly...after i upgrade, which I plan to, I was interested in whether or not people think I should use the mackie pre's or the dmp2 pre's more often for things like:

distorted or clean guitar, amp miced with sm57.
vocals (male/female singing) with C1
hiphop/gangster rap vocals with C1

for just a few examples...those are good.

anyway..continue to discuss, this is telling me a lot. haha.
 
I would get a DMP3 instead of a Mackie 1202. That mic amp is schweeet!!
 
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