Mic Preamp

[Reggaesoldier]

I have 2 shure ksm109's for recording woodwinds and acoustic guitars with, and a few sm58's for vocals. I was just curious what might be a decent preamp to warm up the tracks for about $2-$300? I've heard presonus was good but im not really sure! any input would be great. thanks

 

[The Green Hornet]

Yo Salsa Soldier:

I use and love my Grace Design 101 -- however, it costs a few bucks more than you asked.

For your budget, I suggest to go to a major vendor and listen to all the mic pres available in your price range. But, for 300 pezzutos, you should be able to find one you like.

Happy Easter
Green Hornet

 

[Treeline]

The Grace 101 is beautiful.

A nice entry preamp, though, is the M-Audio DMP3. I've had a good experience with it, partly because it has a bit of punch and partly because it is simple to operate and behaves itself. I also run vocals through it in live sound applciations; it's a step up from my mixer preamps. 2 channels; street price is about $160. I prefer it to the Presonus Blue Tube.

 

[Reggaesoldier]

alright I'll check em out! Hey Tree its kinda funny you replied I just got done reading your last post about this Jamfest thing. Reading through I noticed a few people talking about acoustic pres. I play a few different acoustic guitars and was wondering about a preamp for them. any recommendations? and what exactly is jamfest and where is it? Thanks again!

 

[sdelsolray]

alright I'll check em out! Hey Tree its kinda funny you replied I just got done reading your last post about this Jamfest thing. Reading through I noticed a few people talking about acoustic pres. I play a few different acoustic guitars and was wondering about a preamp for them. any recommendations? and what exactly is jamfest and where is it? Thanks again!

The only acoustic guitar pre that doubles as (i) a studio mic pre and (ii) a pre to handle internal pickups/mics, etc. is the Pendulum Audio SPS-1. Spendy, but it's an incredible piece.

see it at pendulumaudio.com

 

[noiseportrait]

Stay away from the presonus line of budget tube mic pres. You can do better for the money. The dmp3 is good. Also look at the Rane msb1 or the studio projects vtb1.

 

[Markd102]

I have 2 shure ksm109's for recording woodwinds and acoustic guitars with, and a few sm58's for vocals. I was just curious what might be a decent preamp to warm up the tracks for about $2-$300? I've heard presonus was good but im not really sure! any input would be great. thanks

Do yourself a favor and don't waste your money on low-end preamps. I went down that road and I'm now regretting it big-time.
You are quite simply NOT going to get ANYTHING in that price range that will make a SM58 sound even half decent. And if that's your only vocal mic, then you $2-300 would be much better spent updating that. You can get a very servicable LD condenser in that price range. Grab yourself a Studio Projects B3 and you'll have a very nice mic and change.
Then save about $1200 and grab yourself something like a Buzz Audio SSA1.1 (clean) or a Vintech Dual72 (Neve color).

my 2c

Mark

 

[Michael Jones]

Re: Re: Mic Preamp

Do yourself a favor and don't waste your money on low-end preamps. I went down that road and I'm now regretting it big-time.
You are quite simply NOT going to get ANYTHING in that price range that will make a SM58 sound even half decent. And if that's your only vocal mic, then you $2-300 would be much better spent updating that. You can get a very servicable LD condenser in that price range. Grab yourself a Studio Projects B3 and you'll have a very nice mic and change.
Then save about $1200 and grab yourself something like a Buzz Audio SSA1.1 (clean) or a Vintech Dual72 (Neve color).

my 2c

Mark

I have to agree with Mark on this one. I KNOW this IS homerecording, and most people are on a shoestring budget, but throwing $200 - $300 at a new preamp probably isn't going to do a whole lot for your audio quality.
Save up until you can get something that will last you for years and years, and you can grow into it.

Buy cheap; Buy twice.

 

[Reggaesoldier]

OK sounds good! but I guess Id like to know what is the major difference in the amps themselves? just because it costs $1200, is it really better? And what If I bought a $1200 vocal mic instead and plugged it into a lower end pre-amp? I'd expect you to tell me that the Pre-amp wouldn't do the mic any justice. But my question is why? I'm sure the way to go would be to just buy a $1200 mic and a $1200 pre-amp eh? I'm just trying to learn what I can before I make a monster perchase ya know?. I really appreciate your time and information!

 

[Markd102]

Well, the mic (apart from the talent) is arguably the most important link in the chain. But any mic will be only as good as the room, preamp, AD converter and engineer will let it be.

Differences between high-end and cheaper mics and pres can be subtle when soloed. But where you REALLY start to hear the difference is when you start layering up tracks done with cheap gear vs tracks done with good gear. With the cheap stuff you end up with the classic home recorded sound.... low mid mush and either harsh or no top end.
Whereas the mix with good gear just keeps on sounding good.

Now luckily you don't need to spend as much to get a decent mic these days as you do to get a good preamp. The $200ish Studio Projects B3 is no Neumann, but it will give you a fairly true, open and flat sound. Let me also say that $1200 is the minimum you'd have to pay to get a decent preamp.

What preamps are you using now? I'll guarantee you that a SP B3 through you current pre will improve your sound more than a SM58 through a $300 pre.

 

[Reggaesoldier]

I'm not currently using any preamp. I wanted to know what would be a decent one for abput $300. But from what I'm understanding is it would be far more beneficial to wait and save than to go cheaper. It makes sense. And just to clarify when you say "layer" are you talking about layering vocal tracks, or an entire song? Other than that, Thanks for your input it helps!

 

[Markd102]

are you talking about layering vocal tracks, or an entire song?

An entire song.... but both really.


Now, your KSM109's are condensers and so they need phantom power, so you must be running them through some kind of preamp? A mixer perhaps? (which does have a preamp on each channel, asuming it has XLR mic inputs). Or are they battery powered?

If you have no preamp at all then an B3 (or any large diaphram condenser) will be no good to you because you can't power it. So you WILL need to get a preamp first.

List all your gear for us. Recorder, mixer etc.

 

[Reggaesoldier]

I'm running my 109's and 58's , and some other shit into a behringer mx802a mixer. The mixer is plugged into a fostex mr-8, and the mr-8 runs to the computer and i burn from there. so I guess I use the mixers pres

 

[Markd102]

OK cool.

I will guarantee you that a studio projects B3 will sound MUCH better through your Behringer than a 58 will through a $300 preamp.

So I still suggest you buy a B3 now and then start saving for a decent preamp. I know of a guy selling a Vintech 1272 (Neve clone) right now for only US$1050. Now that's a bargain for a great pre.

 

[Reggaesoldier]

any cheaper pres you recommend in the mean time? is the dmp3 worth it for a little while? while I save up that easy $1200. or is it better to really just wait? I still want to warm up the tracks but it'll take a little time to come up with that.

 

[tdukex]

any cheaper pres you recommend in the mean time? is the dmp3 worth it for a little while? while I save up that easy $1200. or is it better to really just wait? I still want to warm up the tracks but it'll take a little time to come up with that.

For $150 the DMP3 is a steal. I have a $1,200 preamp and still use the DMP3 on some acoustic guitar and other tracks.

 

[Markd102]

Yeah, the DMP3 will sound just fine on some tracks, but the point is.... a B3 through his Behringer will sound way better than a SM58 through a DMP.
It's a no brainer. He simply needs a better mic before a better preamp.

 

[Reggaesoldier]

Thanks for all the input guys!

 

[StevenLindsey]

The FMR RNP is a very decent preamp for way less that 1200. So is the Sytek 4 channel. Both around 200 bucks per channel. The new Safesound P1 is reputed to be very good for the money. Of course, if you have money to blow, get the best you can get for the money. But to say that there are no decent pres under $1200 is not true.

 

[tdukex]

Yeah, the DMP3 will sound just fine on some tracks, but the point is.... a B3 through his Behringer will sound way better than a SM58 through a DMP.
It's a no brainer. He simply needs a better mic before a better preamp.

That is not necessarily true. Have you used the DMP3? I have chosen an SM57 over a $1,000 tube mic (through the DMP3) on some of my vocal tracks.

First of all, the DMP3 is only $150--hardly a great financial setback on the evential road to better and more expensive gear.

I happen to own both the DMP3 and the MX802 he is now using. The difference is significant IMO. The Behringer is brittle and harsh (which is even more pronounced with bright condensers). Also, recordings produced with the Beh have very poor stereo imaging. The DMP3, on the other hand, produces recordings that are warm yet clear in comparison and with much more depth and dimnension in the stereo field.

Second, he already has two nice SDs for recording acoustic strings and woodwinds. They will sound very, very good through the DMP3.

Did I mention the DMP3 is only $150? I believe that leaves enough in his budget for a B1 if he wants one, but he may find his Shure KSM 109s sounds just as good (or better) as a B1 on vocals. My MC012 sounds pretty damn good on vox through the DMP3.

So, he sells the Beh for $50 and buys the DMP3 for $150.

He uses the much better preamp for a year or two until he can afford his Vintech (or whatever).

Then he sells the DMP3 for $100 (and ends up getting to use it instead of the crappy Beh for a year for only $50 net cost).

That's what I call a no brainer.