Mic Pre Question

[Frank Sheehan]

Question. As someone starting out with a home studio and looking to get some better mics, I am looking for a good place to begin. I have a few hundred bucks to spend, and I debating between a cheaper tube mic (Apex 460) and something like an SM57 and a tube mic pre. I was all pumped about getting a tube mic, but then I thought I could do well with just an SM57 and a good tube mic pre, and perhaps cover more bases. Is this a fair comparision?

I will be micing guitars (amped and acoustic), bass and vocals. I won't consider my drum needs for now, as they are a whole other ball o' wax.

What will give me the most mileage for the buck? If the answer is the 57 and a pre, can someone recommend a good tube mic pre for the money?
Thanks, and sorry if the question is a dumb.

 

[Big Kenny]

Do a search on tube pre amps. There is heavy discussion about what they actually do and what they provide, starved plate, toob, etc.
What is your quest?
Why do you think a tube anywhere in the chain is important when you are just starting out?
What is your budget? Just saw your budget, do you already have a pre?
What are you going to be recording?
What format will you be using (DAW, comp, DAT ETC)
P.S. Thanks for not asking how to warm up your signal.

 

[jaykeMURD]

I think, for true tube warmth in a digital signal, you have to spend upwards of 500 or more! Otherwise, the next best thing is a DMP3! If you want to record acoustic, you need a Small Diaphram Condensor, to start with. Some people use Large Diaphram Condensers for this also, just produces different results. The SM57 will be great for miking a guitar amp, but won't pick up the acoustic very well. Unless you amplify your acoustic with very expensive equipment, a condenser mic is the only thing that'll provide satisfactory results.

 

[Frank Sheehan]

I am using Cubase. I have an Waveterminal 192m for my soundcard/interface. It has 2 mic pres, and 4 line ins. I can't use them together, due to the limitations of the software that goes with it. I normally do my recording of all things single tracked through the mic inputs. When I record the drums I go through the line ins after using a cheap Alesis mixer for the mic pres. I have been using cheap AKG mics for everything, until I recently borrowed a friend's SM57 and noticed a huge difference in the sound.

Right now all I am doing is recording a good demo of all our music, but it would be nice to make something that sounds good in the stereo. I have heard demos that friends have spent a couple of grand on at a studio, and I am confident with the right tools that we could come close to these. And rather than forking out cash all the time, I can spend some money up front and do as many songs as I like.

I'm no expert, but I am a guitarist first, and I know the importance of tubes in the guitar world. Without starting a whole thing, there simply is no substitute for tubes in obtaining a serious guitar sound. None. If there is any parallel in mics, or pres, then I assume that having tubes in the chain is going to be a good thing. That is the sole logic behind my question. Eventually, I am certain I'll have a tube mic, and tube pres, but I'm trying to figure out where to start.

I used 4 SM57s on drums the other day, and they sounded pretty good to me. I can only imagine when I get better tools/experience, that things will sound better.

So I wonder if I spend $300 on say an Apex 460, what can I use that for with my setup. Vocals, acoustic, overheads?

If I get an SM57 for $110, and a mic pre for $150, what can I do with that? Everything?

Please don't take this as me looking for a final answer. It's more of a what the best place to start? Does that help?

 

[xstatic]

Personally, I would start with a decent LD condensor. I would maybe look at the Studio Projects line or the AT 40 series. Maybe a 4047? A used 4050?

I think given your needs, a decent large diaprhagm condensor will make the biggest and most flexible impact. After that, you might want to consider a preamp, but I would avoid a tube pre unless you have some pretty good money to spend on it. The big thing here is to spend your money in the right place on equipment that can grow with you, or at least maintain some sort of value. A $150 tube preamp would not be that kind of thing in my opinion.

 

[mshilarious]

I'm no expert, but I am a guitarist first, and I know the importance of tubes in the guitar world. Without starting a whole thing, there simply is no substitute for tubes in obtaining a serious guitar sound. None. If there is any parallel in mics, or pres, then I assume that having tubes in the chain is going to be a good thing. That is the sole logic behind my question. Eventually, I am certain I'll have a tube mic, and tube pres, but I'm trying to figure out where to start.

Not precisely a parallel. A tube guitar amp derives its sound not only from preamp tubes pushed pretty far into saturation, but also power tubes, and the response of the rectifier tubes in the power supply.

A mic or mic pre design is going to tend to use a tube as a preamp stage, and stay within the linear range of operation, perhaps slightly exceeding that, but not like a guitar amp.

The most prized aspect of mic pres is usually clarity and transparency. Tubes can definitely supply that, but a solid state design can as well.

 

[Farview]

Xstatic is right. Cheap tube preamps are generally worse than solid state preamps of the same price. The thought that tubes magically warm up the sound is false. Most of the preamps that are thought of as warm are solid state. Neve, API, Great River, etc... are all solid state, they cost a lot but good tube designs are more expensive to build.

 

[Frank Sheehan]

Thanks very much for clarifying guys/gals. I was wondering what the similarities were between tubes in the recording chain, and tubes in the tone chain of a guitar. Makes sense now. I guess I'll focus on mics. So far, it seems that the Studio Projects, MXL, and Apex stuff is all in the same ball park price wise. I'll keep poking around for more reviews, and see what I find. I am not finding too many fans of the Apex 460 on this site.
Thanks again. This site is really good.