Mic Picking Up instrumental

R

robbyrobmusik

New member
I am using a NT1-A to record vocals and i am picking up on my vocal recording a low instrumentel from my cans. Even at the possible lowest settings.. Anyone expirience this before?

rob
 
robbyrobmusik said:
Is this called Noise Bleeding from headphones?
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yes

You could try getting a set (if you don't have already) of close can headphones IE they fit right round your ears, if that makes sense

I have the same problem because admittadly & probably to the detrement of my health I like the cans volume to be quite loud so I resort to manually cutting out the dead audio from the vocal track where it's a problem
 
i found this and though it was interesting..

Compressors do add noise to a signal, and they do destroy dynamic range. Noise is taken care of by gating the signal. When it dips below a certain threshold, the audio signal is muted. This is effective for getting rid of low level noise you do not want in the file, such as bleed from headphones, or the vocalist moving, turning pages on lyric sheets, etc. Gates have two parameters: 1) The noise floor threshold, and the Rate. The Noise floor threshold eliminates all of the signal when it dips below the threshold, which is set from -50db to -10db. I keep mine set to -30db.
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ps what would be a decent compressor to start with?
 
I wouldn't use a gate on vocals. Just get better headphones. Can you even hear the bleed when the track is in the mix?
 
Are you sure that you're not somehow injecting the cue mix directly onto the vocal track by connecting something improperly? I've used a gate on vocals before, but the threshold was at something like -40db, just barely enough to keep the minimal bleed from the singer's headphones out of the mic.
 
Sounds like you may have open air headphones. Try getting some closed-back type as some others have suggested. That really should do it .... at least the bleed should be low enough that it won't be a problem.
 
Lt. Bob said:
Sounds like you may have open air headphones. Try getting some closed-back type as some others have suggested. That really should do it .... at least the bleed should be low enough that it won't be a problem.
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I was looking at the ones i got. They are the Sennheiser HD201 Closed-Back Headphones.

http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--SENHD201

Is it just that these pretty much suck?

you guys feel that a better pair of headsphones will work better than a compressor. Shouldnt i get the compressor anyways to have my vocals sound better?

rob
 
well if you already have closed back 'phones then I'm not so sure. Yeah .... those are cheaper Sennheisers but in general Sennheiser phones are at least decent so maybe the compressor would be a better move.
 
I'm not sure I understand how/why one would use a compressor to attack this problem. All a compressor is going to do is *decrease* the dynamic range between the headphone bleed and the desired signal; the volume of the bleed will undergo a net increase (once the makeup gain is applied.) Gating the headphone bleed it will only help when the bleed is all that is there (when the vocal is silent); while you're singing the gate will have no effect on the bleed.

Either your phones are just plain turned up too high like Slidey suggested, or, even though those phones are "closed", that the design is just too noisy either because the padding or rear isolation on those phones is insufficient.

If you're recording into software, try using expansion instead of compression on the signal to reduce the level of the bleed to negligible levels. Most editors include a standard compressor plug that allows you to expand as well as compress.

G.
 
oh......

Southside thanks for clearing that up.. didnt realize it would only work in silence.

So in reality the only sulution is the headphones. Cause it even happens when the headphones are really really low. THe mic still pics it up..

Now lets just forget about the noise bleed for a sec. I see in your sig line you have something about compression. Should one that is recording demp quality use a compressor. reason i ask i because i am a newbie at recording and when i record and tend to get excited at some points in the song, and i am just worried about not being able to have a "consistent" volume...
 
robbyrobmusik said:
So in reality the only sulution is the headphones. Cause it even happens when the headphones are really really low. THe mic still pics it up..
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On paper that would be the best solution, of course it would also be the one that costs money :( . If you like the Sennheiser, the most popular model on this board is probably the HD280Pro. Unfortunately it's not until you hit about the $100 price mark that you get phones of that quality, regardless of the brand. You might be able to find a used pair for cheap - just make sure you disinfect them well if you buy them used.

But no, that's not the only solution. Re-read my post about using an expander instead of a compressor. You use Audition; it has a "Dynamics Processing" plug that'll do expansion as well as compression. I'd try using that on the recordings to tame the bleed. If you're not sure how to use that plug, just look in Audition's help file for "Dynamics Processing".

robbyrobmusik said:
Now lets just forget about the noise bleed for a sec. I see in your sig line you have something about compression. Should one that is recording demp quality use a compressor. reason i ask i because i am a newbie at recording and when i record and tend to get excited at some points in the song, and i am just worried about not being able to have a "consistent" volume...
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For someone who's just starting out like yourself, and who does appear to be recording into Audition, I'd recommend holding off on compression until after you have recorded your track; i.e. apply software compression during mixing. The idea here is that you only have to record one perfect take performance wise, and then afterwards in Audition you can play around to your heart's desire with the compression and find what works the best for that track. If you record with the compression on the way in, then you're stuck with at least that amount of compression on your recording with no way to un-do it unless you re-record the whole part again.

Feel free to download the tutorial at that link in my signature. It's free, no ads, no obligation, no spyware, etc. Someone might argue that it also contains no useful information :D.

But it'll cost you nothing to find out. :)

G.
 
You want an Expander, not a Compressor.

Gates are extreme versions of Expanders.
Limiters are extreme versions of Compressors.

But your best guess is probably creating a better seal with the heaphones that won't bleed into the mic.

Southside, I didn't really read your posts, so if you already mentioned the Expander part, I didn't mean to duplicate you.
 
Is this really a problem at the end of the day, or just something you hear when you solo the track? It's something to minimize, but unless there's something weird going on I would imagine this is so far below the level of the vocal that it wouldn't present a problem in the mix, unless there's also a latency issue. With condenser mics that can pick up a mouse fart, it's pretty hard not to pick up a little headphone bleed. If it is really a problem, check out Extreme Isolation headphones.


Oh, and edit vocal tracks to remove all the sections where there isn't actually any singing.
 
RAK said:
You want an Expander, not a Compressor.

Gates are extreme versions of Expanders.
Limiters are extreme versions of Compressors.

But your best guess is probably creating a better seal with the heaphones that won't bleed into the mic.

Southside, I didn't really read your posts, so if you already mentioned the Expander part, I didn't mean to duplicate you.
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heh heh, RAK, yeah I did recommend expansion. I'm just glad to see that someone else is on the same page there for a change. It seems like every time I mention range expansion on this board I get the Internet equivalent of blank stares back at me. It's nice to know that someone else knows about expansion ;).

I do somewhat disagree with the phrase, "Gates are extreme version of Expanders" though. I can kind of understand where you're coming from, but they really perform entirely different functions, and I think that statement can be potentially misleading.

Gates are not the inverse of limiters; they do not alter the dynamics of the signal in any way like an expander, compressor or limiter would. They are really just glorified "mutes"; they simply set a threshold volume level where any signal coming in below the volume of the threshold is muted (it does not make it through the "gate".)

Mini Rant re: Gates
And as long as we're on the subject, I'd like to clarify something about gates that seems to be a widespread misconception that I've been reading since coming on this board. It showed itself again earlier in this thread, so this is not completly off-topic, even though it is a sidebar...

Like any other broadband signal processor (I'm not talking about fancy sidechain tricks here), gates only look at and work upon the whole waveform. If the amplitude of the waveform rises above the gate threshold, it "makes it through the gate" and the signal is passes unimpeded. If the waveform does not rise above the threshold, "the gate is closed" and the signal is muted. That's all a gate really does.

Since I have come to this board I keep reading repeated references to reducing noise in a signal by gating it out. Many times there is the implication that any noise in the signal is removed as long as the noise level remains below the threshold, and the rest of the signal above the threshold passes through. In other words, the idea is that the gate can act as a noise filter.

This is not really true. The gate works to mute the signal only as long as the amplitude of the whole signal remains below the threshold. As soon as the wave amplituse of the signal rises above the threshold, the entire signal passes through the gate, noise and all. It does not "filter" the noise out of the signal; it passes everything through. Why? Because "everything" is contained within that single amplitude wave that has crossed the gate.

Gates are effective at muting noise during the otherwise silent parts of a track, but once the instrument or voice comes in and pushes the track amplitude above the gate threshold, the gate is wide open and the noise is still there with the instrument or vocal.

Sorry for the slightly off-track rant there, but this is something that has been pricking the hairs on the back of my neck for a loooong time now, and this seemed as good a time as any to try and set the record straight...in one thread anyway ;).

G.
 
robbyrobmusik said:
is this usually canceled out by a compressor?
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Why in the world would you buy a compressor to fix the symptom of the problem instead of fixing the problem itself? And if anything, a compressor would make it worse anyway.

Just buy closed ear headphones for $20. Bam. Problem over. The simplest solution is always the best.
 
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