Mic on Guitar Cab Selection?

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Alexbt

Alexbt

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I'm doing a project session tomorrow for some music that needs to be prerecorded for a show I am music directing.

It involves some electric guitar which I have never actually miced before. I think I know how to try out placement, but I'm not sure what mics to try.

I have 2 MXL 990s, large condenser
2 MXL 991s, small condenser
and a Audio Technica DR-VX1 dynamic (like SM58)

I also will have access to a Shura Beta 58.

I know none of these are old' SM57, but what is most likely to produce a desirable result?

Also, I'm a bit worried about putting my condensers too close to the cabs. Can this damage them?
 
first of all...the 990's are SDC's like the 991's. They are actually the same guts as the 603, just in a larger body. Second...I used to have a 990 and I put it on a guitar cab once and it sounded like the diaphram just twisted and folded up. I dont know about the Audio technica mic that you mentioned but your best bet would no doubt be the beta 58 that you said you will have access to. I would also probably unscrew the ball from the top of it.
 
On clean guitar I liked the 990 at about 3 feet of my vox ad30vt. The recording sounded exactly like the sound that came from the amp itself :).

For live I also use a beta 58 on my amp, and it always sounds good through the PA...never REALLY listened carefully though, but it didn't sound disturbingly bad...
 
The condensers might be OK if you are recording the guitar alone. If you are recording other things at the same time, mic bleed will be an issue-just use the 58. If guitar is recorded alone, use the 58 up close, and a condenser backed off, and the use whichever sounds good, or a blend of the two.-Richie
 
Sounds, good, thanks.

And I didn't know the 990 wasn't a large diaphram.
 
You're gonna get a lot of "DURR BUY A 57" responses here, but I suggest you look beyond that. The thing is tried and true and has been a part of countless great recorded guitar sounds, but it's not everyone's cup of tea. I actually like a large condenser a few feet out from the amp to pick up just a teeny little bit of the room and make the guitar sound a bit bigger. It's all a matter of taste.

As for what to use, I suggest you record everything. Keep everything, and make a note of what sounds good. Every second you spend critically listening to sound makes a big difference. Take the windscreen off that 58 copy and try it out, that'd probably be a good start.
 
Mmm, I probably will try everything.

It's starting to get a bit confusing, when we've got a Beta 58 and a SM58-clone.

I'll post back tonight, after the session.
 
hello ..1st post .
anyway.,.for clean gtr i like 57 or beyer m201 (or both, in phase ofcourse)

but for overdrive i'm getting better results out of a rode nt1 or akg 414 eb.
although i'm scared of hurting my lovely 414 eb with loud guitar sounds!

depends on your pres tho i guess
 
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Well, we had the first session.

For acoustic guitar, we used a MXL 990 and a DI line. This worked out well.
When it came time to use the electric, we had some problems.
Basically, it was just light distortion from the amp that we were trying to capture.
The volume on the amp was set very low, and even so, we had some big problems.

I set up the Beta 58 in the center of the amp, pointed at the cone. At first we noticed that the Beta was picking up a lot of air, but this is what comes from the amp itself. When actually playing, it sounded as though it were clipping, which was not on the preamp side. I had it plugged into Line 1 (XLR) on my Delta. The signal was not anywhere near the red. (Peaking in yellow) Basically it is more distorted than what the amp is putting out.

It sounded like the mic was being overloaded from 4 inches to a foot away from the amp, always the same, just less clear. The further away, the more room noise we would get, anyways. (By room noise, I mean physical movement, the guitar being picked, etc.)

I tried with my AT mic--similar situation.

Instead of the Delta in, I tried going through the mixer's preamp. The results were a bit more favorable, but not good enough. These pres are also a tad noisy, which only adds to the air from the amp.

For the hell of it, I put a MXL 991 on it. These results were the most favorable, after adjusting the amp and turning way down (the 991 is VERY hot compared to both dynamics).

Is there anything I'm doing that sounds majorly wrong, or is it something in the signal chain that could be the problem?

When we did a different project 2 years ago, the same Beta was used, but into a Tascam US-122. I did not engineer most of the project, though I was present at the sessions for piano. I can't imagine how it was done much differently...

BTW, I have no reason to believe the amp is at fault. I was able to stick my right ear about 2-3 inches from the amp and it sounded fine... to my left was the mic, which was probably around a foot away getting more distortion.

Any suggestions are much appreciatied. We're going to do a second session tomorrow evening. I don't think I can dig up any other mics by then, so we've gotta work with what we've got.
 
I dont know how distorted you want your guitar part, but you can probably cut your gain in half or even more when recording. when you listen to the playback, I think you will hear what you want in your recording. You will almost never use your "live" settings when recording. Cut your gain and let us know what you think.
 
Alexbt said:
... the Beta 58 in the center of the amp, pointed at the cone. At first we noticed that the Beta was picking up a lot of air, but this is what comes from the amp itself.
Click to expand...
And it also may be you're getting the difference between hearing the tamed averaging effects of the amp off-axis in the room vs. sharp and nasty, up close and on axis. The speakers shoot the top end in a fairly narrow beam. Combine that with the presence boots of the mic...
Wayne

err.. presence boost.. :D
 
Uhh... I didn't really understand this last bit...

Anyways, I guess I didn't make myself clear that this amp was not set anywhere near a live setting.

It was set to a very quiet volume compared to how it would be on stage, which is why I can't figure out why the mic would be overloaded.

However, a mic like the Beta was getting overloaded when I was singing into it rather closely (with the pop/windscreen back on).
 
Unless you have two broken mics(?!) this does not equate. Are you sure about all of the gain stages? 'Mic xlr into 'line 1'? Want to run through the details?
Wayne
 
Alexbt said:
However, a mic like the Beta was getting overloaded when I was singing into it rather closely (with the pop/windscreen back on).
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to say I can't belief that. You'd have to scream like a dying mammoth to get anywhere near the level to overload the mic. The mic preamp, that's a whole different story. Are you sure you didn't overload the preamp instead?
 
That's what I've been thinking. The Delta was not showing any clipping when plugged right into it.

I don't think the mixer was clipping when I went that route.

Or maybe it's just that the mics are more sensitive to the distortion than I give them credit for. I'll take a DI line from the amp as well tonight and give samples.

Wayne: The Delta 1010LT features two XLR in ports on channels 1 and 2 of the card. I have it set to mic level.

Channel 3 is an RCA, for which I was using an RCA to 1/4" cable to get the source of the mixer's preamp via the insert jack.
 
Have you tried aiming the mic at a diagonal - not right at the cone? A lot of speakers sound nicer slightly off axis.

Dan
 
Ended up being mostly a gain problem. I tried going through the mixer again with the Beta at a lower gain and it sounded just fine. I had to back the mic off just a tad when the distortion got turned up, but we were using the amp at a higher volume today.

(The amp does not give the desired sound at lower volumes)

Will post sound clips tomorrow. Thanks for the help all. I probably will invest in a SM57 soon!
 


Example of the Electric Guitar. Double tracked and hard panned. Condenser and Beta were 'blended' for each track.
Ignore the bad Fender Rhodes part. I'm not done with it yet. ;)
 
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