mic matching

G

guitarlover

New member
I've looked elaewhere in this forum for the answer and I cannot find it.

My question is simple; How important is it to use a matched set of mics for stereo recording? In my case, I record classical guitar if this has a bearing on the question. Is there a benefit other than the obvious one of setting the levels?

I realize that in really low priced mics there are notable differences but when the mics are more in the medium priced range, it seems that the differences are correspondingly smaller also. ?

Thanks for your input, Steve
 
Think of it this way:

If one of the mics has a peak at a note you're playing, the image will "jump" towards that mic whenever you play that note. If the other mic has a peak at a different note, the stereo image will jump around.
 
My understanding of this is very rudimentary.

If the mics are poorly matched, there will not only be discrepancies in average sensitivity (which can be corrected in mixing), but in frequency response also. In a simplistic case, if you're recording an acoustic guitar in stereo, and the left mic has a more pronounced low frequency response, and the right is more sensitive to higher frequencies, then when you listen to the recording the source (guitar) will seem to shift in the stereo field, depending on the notes that are played. One would hope that the more expensive the mic, the more similar two random individual mics would be, but I have no experience with these.

I'm sure others here can give you much better information than I.
 
pardon my ignorance.. but wouldn't these slight variations enhance the stereo effect? otherwise in some cases you would be very close to just splitting a mono signal... maybe i like subtlty in the form of a brick to balls... i do understand where the whole matched pair thing is coming from, but i sometimes find good results with a b1 and an ecm800 in xy (drum o/h)... or on (classical) guitar one over the shoulder one at 12th fret, double track and switch the pan.... however all that being said there is much use for a stereo pair, i just dont think its always the best/only option

just trying to shed a different light on the topic
 
crazydoc said:
My understanding of this is very rudimentary.

If the mics are poorly matched, there will not only be discrepancies in average sensitivity (which can be corrected in mixing), but in frequency response also. In a simplistic case, if you're recording an acoustic guitar in stereo, and the left mic has a more pronounced low frequency response, and the right is more sensitive to higher frequencies, then when you listen to the recording the source (guitar) will seem to shift in the stereo field, depending on the notes that are played. One would hope that the more expensive the mic, the more similar two random individual mics would be, but I have no experience with these.

I'm sure others here can give you much better information than I.
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My problem with that theory is that, on guitar, you normally already have one mic pointing at the neck (treble) and the other pointing at the bout (bass) so that configuration (mic placement) is going to have a much bigger affect on the sound than a slight difference in freq response of the two mics.

I have recorded quite a bit of acoustic guitar--never with a matched pair, and I have never experienced the problems you and Harvey are describing, although I'm not arguing that it can't/doesn't happen (even on my recordings) because my ears have nowhere near Harvey's expertise or experience.

What I am saying and what I do know from experience is that IMO you can get a great acoustic guitar sound using two completely different mics. Of course, we'd all like a matched pair of Josephsons, but it is totally unnecessary for excellent tracks IMO. In fact, I remember seeing a great fingerstyle player in a recording mag a while back who always used a combination of seven dynamics, SDs and LDs to achieve "his" sound. Talk about phase issues.:D
 
hmmm...

Makes sense, all of it. I hadn't thought about the effect on the stereo field.

I also see the point about using completely different mics. That was what prompted my question. I was doing an A-B comparison of a new mic I just bought (AT 3035) with my other cheapies (MXL67V and Shure PG81). I have pairs of the cheapies. I tend to do more distance micing so breathing sounds don't become part of the recording, but I digress. Needless to say, the AT blew the MXL's away and were noticably better then the Shure's but I also noticed that the AT AND the Shure sounded pretty ggod together so, my question.

I have no intention of keeping this arrangement but it did bring up some interesting points.

Regards, Steve
 
Harvey Gerst said:
Yeah, but your answer sounds fancier and more hi tech than mine.
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But yours is certainly more to the point and easier to understand.

tdukex said:

I have recorded quite a bit of acoustic guitar--never with a matched pair, and I have never experienced the problems you and Harvey are describing...
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I think if you were to record with two different mics (or unmatched mics), and pan them hard left and hard right in the mix, the effect might be more evident. I can't speak from much experience here, but when I mix I put them pretty close to each other in the field - to blend their sounds, not to give a stereo effect.
 
Actually, crazydoc, If I'm going to stereo mic a guit it's because it is a solo guitar piece or a very sparse mix, so I almost always pan hard left and hard right for a very wide stereo image. I also use different configs like XY, ORTF, and spaced pair.

And to be honest, now that I think about it, I may have occasionally experienced the effect you and Harvey mentioned. If so, it would have been very subtle. If nothing else, I've learned to watch for it in the future.
 
I am struggling with the same issue. Now I record my acoustic guitar using a Rode NT1a LD condenser mic. I want to add color, detail and wideness to the sound image, so I'm going to buy an SD condenser to enhance and complement the overall tone.

I would think that's the point of using 2 mics, to enhance eachothers strengths and compensate for weaknesses. That's why I want to buy an AKG 451B SD condenser to add to the Rode.

Any thoughts? As I wrote in my other thread I can get a matched pair of Rode NT5s SD condensers, so.....
 
After reading the replys so far, I am forming the opinion that while matching is preferred, it is by no means the only way to go and therefore it is probably not quite as important, in most situations, as mic companies would like you to believe.

For those doing stereo micing with different mics altogether, I have to wonder what they do with the final mix to retain a stereo field and yet "blend" the 2 mics. Otherwise, couldn't you end up with say a very warm sound from one channel (an LD condenser) and a brighter sound from the other (a SD condenser). This seems that it could cause more problems than unmatched mics unless the result is combined equally, or nearly so, on both channels.

Regards, Steve
 
Mic matching

Hi there,

I have done/do a lot of acoustic guitar micing. In general, use the BEST SOUNDING mic you have to do the track. And the best preamp. BEST SOUNDING doesn't always mean MOST EXPENSIVE. Some mics just sound better on certain instruments, regardless of what they were intended to be used for. With preamps though usually the BEST sounding one will be the most expensive.

I don't mic in stereo. I just put up one mic (usually a vintage Neumann KM54 small diaphragm tube condenser) to one of my Telefunken V76 tube pres. I have gotten excellent results with an AKG C4000B large diaphragm FET condenser too.

Then I'll double track (play it again maybe with a different mic/preamp setup) and play them left and right and listen to which one sounds the best. The best sounding one gets used, the second usually gets mixed in at a lower volume to "fatten" up the first track.

Sometimes they BOTH sound REALLY NICE and I'll put 'em both in at equal volumes, panned at 9:00 and 3:00!!
 
guitarlover said:
[B
For those doing stereo micing with different mics altogether, I have to wonder what they do with the final mix to retain a stereo field and yet "blend" the 2 mics. Otherwise, couldn't you end up with say a very warm sound from one channel (an LD condenser) and a brighter sound from the other (a SD condenser). This seems that it could cause more problems than unmatched mics unless the result is combined equally, or nearly so, on both channels.

Regards, Steve [/B]
Click to expand...

That has not been my experience. IMO a stereo image is not necessarily the exact same sound from both left and right. Otherwise we would all just use one of the faux stereo techniques by using one mic, then cloning the track so you have two tracks and then panning L/R. If you are using two mics--whether matched or not--one is going to be picking up more bass and the other is going to pick up more treble because they are pointed at two different places on the guitar.

When playing back, even when your stereo tracks are panned hard L/R, you will always get a little of the left mic sound in the right track and vica versa. Also, despite the hard panning and a wide stereo image, there will always also be a perceived center where the two sounds meet and meld. In other words, the recording will still sound like the same instrument being recorded at the same time in the same space, IMO.

There is actually some debate about how wide stereo guitar tracks should be panned, but in practice, it is done all ways with all different configurations and different mics and different panning and mixing techniques.

The only relevant question IMO is "Does it sound good for THIS song?"
 
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