Mic for daughter

  • Thread starter Thread starter StevenLindsey
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pohaku said:
If you want to look at ribbon mics, I generally prefer the Beyer M500 to the M260 as a vocal mic. It was designed to be a performing vocal mic. Unfortunately it's only available used, but if you happen to luck into one, it is well worth considering.
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I'd agree with this for male vocals. I have three M500s of differing varieties and pedigrees, and I use the best of them when I perform, but the M260 sounds best on my wife. It doesn't have that built-in presence rise that the 500s do. And she's a pretty "plosive" singer, which the 260 attenuates.
 
Point well taken. That, of course, is the problem with mics. You are best off if you can try them out to really know how they match up with the talent's voice. BTW, not to hijack this thread, but which of your various M500s do you like best? I have a motley assortment of them also and they do vary some. The one I like on my own voice, which is thin, is the commemorative reissue (silver and in box). I've found the M500 works well on some, but not necessarily all female voices, and your point about the slight presence peak is probably the reason. For M260s, I like the older model with the straight sided body and the tuchel connector a lot better than the newer model, and certainly better than the M260.80.
 
TaperChuck said:
The M88 is a great vocal mic for on stage use. Let me throw in one more, the Sennheiser MD421. They look weird (or cool) depending on your frame of reference, but sound nice on female vocals. The proximity effect can be managed with an integrated high pass filter with three different settings. It's built into the microphone itself.
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The M88 is an excellent all-around mic. The MD421 sounds great, but I don't think its clip is durable enough for stage vocal use.
 
pohaku said:
If you want to look at ribbon mics, I generally prefer the Beyer M500 to the M260 as a vocal mic. It was designed to be a performing vocal mic. Unfortunately it's only available used, but if you happen to luck into one, it is well worth considering.
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As far as I know the M260 is still in production, not a mic for every voice, but certainly very smooth.

http://www.beyerdynamic.com/cms/Studio_microphones.42.0.html?&L=1&L=1&tx_sbproductdatabase_pi1[showUid][backPID]=42&tx_sbproductdatabase_pi1[showUid][showUID]=9&cHash=a2c583f629
 
I believe the M260 that is still in production is what was at one time termed the "M260.80" which has a built in (not switchable) bass roll-off. FWIW, I like the original one with more proximity effect better.

From the Beyer website:

M 260
Order ID: 127.329
Ribbon microphone with built-in high-pass-filter

PDF Downloads
Manual(PDF)
Datasheet(PDF)


Application
Vocals
Instrumental miking
Speech

The M 260 is used for vocals and miking instruments at broadcast, recording and film studios. Its flat frequency response and natural, warm ?ribbon? sonic profile make it a highly effective element of the digital recording process.
The hypercardioid polar pattern provides an extremely high gain-before-feedback and elimination of lateral noise (maximum at 115°). The M 260 is equipped with a built-in high-pass-filter which compensates the close miking effect, when the microphone is applied very close to an instrument. The microphone also features a high insensitivity towards magnetic stray fields and extreme temperatures. The rugged grille protects the microphone system against accidental hits and kicks.

Features
Ribbon transducer performance in a rugged, versatile configuration
Hypercardioid polar pattern
Extremely high gain before feedback
Fast, transient response
Wide, flat frequency response
Rugged metal casing

Technical Specifications
Transducer type Dynamic
Operating principle Pressure gradient
Frequency response (distant miking) 40 - 18,000 Hz
Polar pattern Hypercardioid
Side attenuation > 20 dB at 115°
Open circuit voltage at 1 kHz (0dB = 1V/Pa) 1.2 mV/Pa ≡ -58 dBV
Nominal impedance 200 Ω
Load impedance ≥ 1000 Ω
Diaphragm Pure aluminium
Case/finish Brass
Connector 3-pin XLR male
Length 163 mm
Shaft diameter 24 mm
Head diameter 43,5 mm
Weight without cable approx. 230 g
 
mshilarious said:
The M88 is an excellent all-around mic. The MD421 sounds great, but I don't think its clip is durable enough for stage vocal use.
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You got that right on the clip!! You would think that someone could have a viable product by just making a durable clip for those things - although it would probably result in a Sennheiser patent infringement to do it. Everyone who has a 421 would buy one.
 
pohaku said:
BTW, not to hijack this thread, but which of your various M500s do you like best? I have a motley assortment of them also and they do vary some. The one I like on my own voice, which is thin, is the commemorative reissue (silver and in box). I've found the M500 works well on some, but not necessarily all female voices, and your point about the slight presence peak is probably the reason. For M260s, I like the older model with the straight sided body and the tuchel connector a lot better than the newer model, and certainly better than the M260.80.
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pohaku, I have a M500TG, an M500(N) which I had Stephen Sank do his "77DX" mod to, and the "Classic", the one you like, which was reribboned by Clarence Kane. The Classic is my favorite too. Wonderful microphone. It's like butterscotch syrup on a male voice.

My 260 is actually branded "Steffens"; it's an older design (straight sides) but with the XLR connection. Aside from sounding great for my wife, it's a great snare-drum mic.

Today I won an eBay auction for an "M500TGS", which appears to be an M500TG with an on-off switch. The seller just put "vocal mic" as the auction title, had very little information about the mic, and one poor-quality photo. I was the only bidder and got it for $75. At that price, I can't lose, even if I don't care for the mic.
 
A deal! The best one I got was paying $120 for an assortment of mics that included an M500n. The others were worthless, but the Beyer was in good shape. The seller only posted that there was a Beyer in the group and then went on vacation and couldn't answer queries. Just a bit of luck, eh? :D At this point I have the 1 Reissue and 4 M500ns.
 
pohaku said:
You got that right on the clip!! You would think that someone could have a viable product by just making a durable clip for those things - although it would probably result in a Sennheiser patent infringement to do it. Everyone who has a 421 would buy one.
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micclip.jpg


And make it fit tight so you don't have to glue it.
 
Yo Steven! Well, I've been vocalizing on stage for 30 years or so, and I've long since given up the idea that live mics are a fashion show. I play guitar, so I have no need for a handheld mic. It sounds like you are pretty set on the handheld option. I understand, but it does rule out some of the best live mics I know of, particularly SM7, which absolutely rocks as a live mic, as well as EV RE20. The Neumann KMS105 is the best live mic I've used, but it requires a soundman that can control feedback, and of course, requires phantom power. It is a little feedback prone, IMO, for hard rock or alternative. One mic that hasn't been mentioned is AKG D3800m tripower. This is a dynamic handheld mic that sounds a lot like an MD421, and has the sleek styling you are looking for. I use the SM7 on stage, but I carry a tripower or a Sennheiser e845 with me as a backup mic, just in case. Best of luck.-Richie
 
Hey, Richie

Richard Monroe said:
Yo Steven! Well, I've been vocalizing on stage for 30 years or so, and I've long since given up the idea that live mics are a fashion show. I play guitar, so I have no need for a handheld mic. It sounds like you are pretty set on the handheld option. I understand, but it does rule out some of the best live mics I know of, particularly SM7, which absolutely rocks as a live mic, as well as EV RE20. The Neumann KMS105 is the best live mic I've used, but it requires a soundman that can control feedback, and of course, requires phantom power. It is a little feedback prone, IMO, for hard rock or alternative. One mic that hasn't been mentioned is AKG D3800m tripower. This is a dynamic handheld mic that sounds a lot like an MD421, and has the sleek styling you are looking for. I use the SM7 on stage, but I carry a tripower or a Sennheiser e845 with me as a backup mic, just in case. Best of luck.-Richie
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Brain-picking time again. So if I had an SM7 and a 57 and a 58, is that AKG different enough that it would be worth getting as another flavor (and perhaps instead of a 421), or are the differences pretty subtle?

Would the AKG be a valid substitute for the 421, as say, a conga mic?

And what would you characterize as the general difference between the sm7 and the AKG or 421?
 
Richard Monroe said:
Yo Steven! Well, I've been vocalizing on stage for 30 years or so, and I've long since given up the idea that live mics are a fashion show.
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Thanks a lot Richard! Been watching you post on here for several years now. Great to have your feedback.

I know what you're saying here....but you ain't a GIRL. :)

Her bands been asked to play at some Sam Ash concert in Dallas on Feb 9. I know she wants to look her best. She has to have a sleek mic. I have a feeling that, for a woman, the mic IS part of a fashion show.
 
Well, I just ordered a Beyer M88TG from Full Compass. They quoted me 325 + 10 shipping. Musicians Friend had it for 349.99. Sweetwater for 399 and they usually won't come down. Unfortunately, FC wouldn't ship it straight to Dallas so I'll have to ship it from here....but that's OK.

Thanks for all the great suggestions everybody.

When she gets it and has time to try it out, I'll come back and let ya'll know how she likes it.

If she doesn't, I'll just have her give it back to me for MY mic locker and try something else.
 
Yo Cardio! Would the AKG be a valid substitute for a 421 on conga? Yes. I personally love the 421, but the tripower is a discontinued mic that I can get from Guitar Center for $99. I wish I could get a new 421 for that. It's a little tricky on placement as a vocal mic, not unlike the 421. You'll notice people who use the 421 as a vocal mic (The Grateful Dead, for instance) maintain a *very* strict distance from the mic, and a *very* strict angle of attack. The same goes for the tripower. It's a very good mic, but challenging, especially for a beginner. The only way I can describe the sound of a tripower as a vocal mic (or the 421 for that matter) is to say that it sounds like a condenser, not like a dynamic. It has really good reproduction of detail, which gives you that in your face, American Idol kind of clarity. If the singer sucks, that is very bad. The tripower is a mic that shines in the hands of a very good singer, and you have to be careful about handling noise, which goes with sensitivity. BTW, everything I have said about the tripower also applies to the KMS105.

What is the difference with SM7? First of all, it is the most forgiving, feedback-resistant mic I have ever used. It doesn't give a damn where you stand. Proximity is gradual and mild. It sounds like a dynamic, not like a condenser. It is not as detailed as the Neumann, the Sennheiser, or the tripower. The midrange boost switch is really handy. It helps it cut through a dense mix when used as a vocal mic. The SM7 is also just so damned versatile. It is a very good live instrument mic, especially for horns and sax, and is good on cabs. Hell, you can even use it as a kick drum mic. Nobody is likely to recommend the Neumann for kick. Basically an SM7 does what an SM57 does- much better. I'm surprised more people don't use it as a live mic. It's been my go-to live vox mic since the day I plugged it into my PA.-Richie

To the original poster- I've never gotten to use the Beyer, but people I trust like it a lot. You have probably chosen well. Because vocal mics are so personal, I always try to follow 2 rules when buying one that I haven't used extensively:

1. Buy mics that you know are good for recording *something*. If it isn't right for the intended voice, it better be good on horns, or piano, or toms, or cabs- something.

2. Buy mics that are used in lots of pro studios and are respected around the world. This will make it much easier to sell it if it doesn't work out for you. That makes my mic buying conservative, and I may miss some great deals, but I rarely get screwed in the process.

I believe the Beyerdynamic meets both of the above criteria, so you can't really go wrong. I hope she loves it.-Richie
 
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Hey, thanks man!

I swear I saw one of those mics somewhere still available, but if it's that picky, I'll pass.

I never heard anything about the 421 being that picky. Good to know. I'll leave it off my list until I get some congas. I just lways felt like I was incomplete because I didn't have a 421, it's so universally loved, though not necessarily for voice I guess.

Finally, a piece of equipment that I can stop wanting!

Thanks again.
 
StevenLindsey said:
I asked her what kind of mic she had......she said it was a black one.
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by the sound of things, i'm not sure how much she'll really appreciate the neumann :rolleyes:

it's like when my mom looks in my studio and says ' oh the lights look so pretty '. :confused:

but i think that an SM7 is a great deal. its the Michael jackson mic, as some know it as. one the most popular vocal dynamic's used in the studio too. being that it is a dynamic, it won't be a big deal on stage either, so i would venture to say that it would suit her well.

i'm gettin one myself for the studio. if i could sing, i'd be set.
 
Yo Cardio! I wouldn't rule out the 421-ever. I just don't think its main application is as a vocal mic. That does not rule it out for vox, it just requires a singer that knows how to work it. It's just another one of those mics that is always good for *something*, and which you can always sell.

And yeah, there are still tripowers out there, because like a lot of AKG stage mics, it didn't sell as well as the dealers would like. I bought mine because GC was blowing it out for $99, and I'm recording a radio play, which stresses my dynamic options to the limits. It turned out to be one of our go-to voiceover mics. If I had half a dozen top shelf dynamics, maybe I wouldn't need it as much. For a $300 mic, you could probably do better. For a $99 mic, it kicks ass. -Richie
 
Richard Monroe said:
Yo Cardio! I wouldn't rule out the 421-ever. I just don't think its main application is as a vocal mic. That does not rule it out for vox, it just requires a singer that knows how to work it.
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I have a video compilation of live Beatles performances. Hands down, the sound is best from a show where they were singing through MD421s.
 
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