B
billabob
New member
haha yer mate i know what you mean, from all this advice i dunno whats going where. I think im just gonna settle with the Md421 and then if i dont like it i can always upgrade in the future, because like you said anything is better than what im using now.
xxxx
xxxx
B
billabob
New member
cheers for the clip tip man, may just use that, but whyd you get a white one? black looks much better in my opinion 
xxx
xxx
Steenamaroo
...
it's a really old one from 1960s (i think)....
funny, i prefer white.....sucker for the 'retro look'
lol...
kidding,,,tbh they were just dirt cheap at the time!
funny, i prefer white.....sucker for the 'retro look'
lol...kidding,,,tbh they were just dirt cheap at the time!
B
billabob
New member
yer man fair enough, its more about sound that look. If i got offered a white one cheap id do the same.
xxxx
xxxx
R
Richard Monroe
Well-known member
I tell you what billabob- First, this business about the 421 and the mic clip- it's true. The mic clip sucks. I would just get a soft rubber mic clip and jam the mic into it. I wouldn't glue it in, I'd keep the original mic clip in the box, so if you ever want to sell it, you can sell it with the original clip. That usually means barely used to a buyer, because we all know those suckers always break. But if you continue to record things- you will never "upgrade" from a 421- you'll just get other mics. That's the point of checking big time studio equipment lists. When the big boys went out and bought that $5000 condenser, they *kept* the 421. Why? because it was a good mic, maybe better for some things than that $5000 condenser. That's the point of buying proven mics. They don't go away, you just get other mics. Should you get a condenser? Absolutely- probably your next mic. I like AKG C2000B and MXL V67G for cheap condensers. If you think the opinions on dynamics are confusing, condensers are worse- much worse.
Because top condensers cost thousands, and cheap ones start at under $100, everybody is looking for that magic mic that costs $100 and sounds like a Neumann. When you get into top dynamics, you can count them on the fingers of your two hands. When you get into condensers, you're going to need a *lot* more fingers. One of the reasons I started by suggesting MD421 is because: 1. It will never lose it's value 2. You were looking for a cab mic, and it is a very good one. and 3.- it's good for quite a few other things, including percussion, sax, horns, and vocals (main Grateful Dead vocal mic, among many other people). I believe that a basic dynamic and a basic condenser are like the Yin and Yang of microphones. They are both tools you will want to learn how to use. It doesn't really matter whether you start with a dynamic or a condenser, because eventually, you will know that you need them both.
I generally recommend starting with a good dynamic, because good ones cost so much less than really good condensers. When you get an inexpensive condenser, you see the big boys with their $1000+ condensers, and you know you can't afford that, and you wonder if you would sound like that if you had that cool mic. When you buy a good dynamic, which can be bought on a normal human budget, you see the big boys using *the exact same mic*, and you notice that they still sound better than you. Clue- it's not the mic. It's a combination of good instruments, good mics, good preamps, good recording space, good tracking, mixing, and mastering. And it is also just possible that they play better than you do (No!). Steenamaroo is absolutely right about one thing- Any of the mics that have been recommended here will be an improvement. What I go for is mics that I know are good for recording *something*, because I found them on the equipment lists of big time studios. That way, if I find an MD421 isn't my first choice for recording some cab, that doesn't mean I sell it. It means I put it on a snare drum, or a trombone, a conga, or an alto sax. It will never become useless. Of course that means I will miss out on the newest, latest innovation, and most of my mics won't be really cheap. Big time studios are also conservative, and when they know something works, they rarely sell it. The MD421 in that big time studio may have been there since 1965. But that tells you something. It's just as useful as the day it was made, 45 years ago, and- in 45 years, it hasn't broken or worn out. Betcha that mic clip is toast, though. Richie
Because top condensers cost thousands, and cheap ones start at under $100, everybody is looking for that magic mic that costs $100 and sounds like a Neumann. When you get into top dynamics, you can count them on the fingers of your two hands. When you get into condensers, you're going to need a *lot* more fingers. One of the reasons I started by suggesting MD421 is because: 1. It will never lose it's value 2. You were looking for a cab mic, and it is a very good one. and 3.- it's good for quite a few other things, including percussion, sax, horns, and vocals (main Grateful Dead vocal mic, among many other people). I believe that a basic dynamic and a basic condenser are like the Yin and Yang of microphones. They are both tools you will want to learn how to use. It doesn't really matter whether you start with a dynamic or a condenser, because eventually, you will know that you need them both.
I generally recommend starting with a good dynamic, because good ones cost so much less than really good condensers. When you get an inexpensive condenser, you see the big boys with their $1000+ condensers, and you know you can't afford that, and you wonder if you would sound like that if you had that cool mic. When you buy a good dynamic, which can be bought on a normal human budget, you see the big boys using *the exact same mic*, and you notice that they still sound better than you. Clue- it's not the mic. It's a combination of good instruments, good mics, good preamps, good recording space, good tracking, mixing, and mastering. And it is also just possible that they play better than you do (No!). Steenamaroo is absolutely right about one thing- Any of the mics that have been recommended here will be an improvement. What I go for is mics that I know are good for recording *something*, because I found them on the equipment lists of big time studios. That way, if I find an MD421 isn't my first choice for recording some cab, that doesn't mean I sell it. It means I put it on a snare drum, or a trombone, a conga, or an alto sax. It will never become useless. Of course that means I will miss out on the newest, latest innovation, and most of my mics won't be really cheap. Big time studios are also conservative, and when they know something works, they rarely sell it. The MD421 in that big time studio may have been there since 1965. But that tells you something. It's just as useful as the day it was made, 45 years ago, and- in 45 years, it hasn't broken or worn out. Betcha that mic clip is toast, though.
Richie
Last edited:
Steenamaroo
...
meant to add in that the hot glue peels off if u want it to,,,so it's not permanent or damaging,,,,but still,good call
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
omfg people,,,seriously.....just leave him alone...
he asked what we think of a 421, and we all told him that give or take,,,,it's a fantastic mic....
we all know how rockable the "i'm buying one mic" boat can be,,,,,so why rock it?
billabob,,within reason, no matter what you buy will give you better results than your getting.
i'm not sure if miroslav is stirring it for a laugh,,but you asked how good a 421 is, and you've received suggestions about monitors, preamps, condensers and alternative dynamics......
i give it two days before someone tells you to blow the budget on acoustic treatment, if it hasn't happened already!
I got a box of sand you might find useful...that way anytime you don't want deal with options/decisions...
…you just stick your head in it.
No one is "stirring it for a laugh"...it's more about suggestion how to spend your money wisely and for the long term....'cuz we've all made those bad buying decisions (eBay is full of them!
)Seemed to me like billabob had a rather tight/limited focus on what he wanted, and in some ways, he had decided BEFORE even asking for opinions.
I'm just giving him the broader picture 'cuz I've seen it many times before...people put on blinders and buy up some gear...then 3 months later they come back asking why stuff doesn't sound right and what should they buy next to fix that...yada...yada...yada.
But I already told him to just go with what he wants...he can buy more later...
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Mmmmmmm....there are some "top-ish" condensers in the $500-$800 range.
I don't think you need to spend $3000 on a condenser before you can hear the quality difference when compared to most dynamics.
But I agree...buy something just to get going, no need to think it out too far and too long...
...though if you don't buy wisely, you will need to buy more later, and that's fine as long as your budget will allow that.
For a tight budget...every purchase needs to be on the money.
I'm very frugal...'cuz I'm not rich...so I spend a lot of time reaserching and considering the best long term purchase VS short term...but that's me.
Steenamaroo
...
that's fair enough miroslav...i'm not starting with ya
not tryin to avoid decisions or options either.....i just got the feeling this one could go on for faaar too long,,,,and ultimately, not really make much difference to the OP......
hell,,if we're going down the options route,,,i would have suggested an re11 over a 421,,,,but for the love of god,,don't tell the OP that!!!!!
not tryin to avoid decisions or options either.....i just got the feeling this one could go on for faaar too long,,,,and ultimately, not really make much difference to the OP......
hell,,if we're going down the options route,,,i would have suggested an re11 over a 421,,,,but for the love of god,,don't tell the OP that!!!!!
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Maybe we need to back up the bus and find out what/how exactly the OP wants to record?
I was alluding to that when mentioning the tonal differences...and Jay (Fairview) said it too just a few posts ago.
We really don't know what kind of tones he likes... the styles of music he plans to record... or his overall intent ("I'm just doing it for laughs." or "I want it to sound as good as a pro commercial production.")...???
THOSE are the questions that will dictate the gear selection (and budget of course).
I was alluding to that when mentioning the tonal differences...and Jay (Fairview) said it too just a few posts ago.
We really don't know what kind of tones he likes... the styles of music he plans to record... or his overall intent ("I'm just doing it for laughs." or "I want it to sound as good as a pro commercial production.")...???
THOSE are the questions that will dictate the gear selection (and budget of course).
B
billabob
New member
Yer this is going on far too long, ive made my choice and i will be ordering the mic on my next pay check.
xxxx
xxxx
squibble94
Nature of Force
The Shure SM7B Dynamic mic sounds amazing when you mic your cabs.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Enjopy your selection....good mics are always a worthy investment.
Though I guess you don't want to tell us what kind of tones you are after or the sytles of music you want to record or if this mic will be used for anything else or your longterm intent with recording...?
D
drumslinger
New member
For a nice full sound the MD421 is always a go to mic, if money isn't a problem. On a budget....
SM57
MXL 990
AT2020
U can get some some pretty good results with a little work.
DS
SM57
MXL 990
AT2020
U can get some some pretty good results with a little work.
DS
B
billabob
New member
well the thing is miroslav, im a pretty inexperienced recorder so i dont want to go into too much detail about tone and what not, i just wanted some decent guitar demos. i may use it for vocals but mainly guitar and im not to worried about vox quality for the minute.
xxxxx
xxxxx
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Don't worry...there wasn't going to be a quiz at the end of this thread.
Thing is...beginner or pro, you still need to have some idea what kind of tones you are going after and the styles of music you want to cover.
Those are the things that help narrow down the best gear for the task and the techniques you need to employ...which is why some of us were asking those questions, to better point you in the right direction.
But trial & error is also another learning method...a bit tedious and sometimes costly...but can also be a lot of fun.
Enjoy.
Thing is...beginner or pro, you still need to have some idea what kind of tones you are going after and the styles of music you want to cover.
Those are the things that help narrow down the best gear for the task and the techniques you need to employ...which is why some of us were asking those questions, to better point you in the right direction.
But trial & error is also another learning method...a bit tedious and sometimes costly...but can also be a lot of fun.
Enjoy.
S
soundchaser59
Reluctant Commander
Of course your mic selection will need to change completely after you get some room treatment isntalled......
(just kidding.....I couldn't stand the fact that nobody brought it up yet! LOL!)
I rented an MD421 once, I would describe it as the only Sennheiser mic I've ever wanted to keep. Unfortunately, I did not own my SM7b yet, so I could not tell you side by side comparisons.
I got lucky with a little Soundcraft Compact 4 mixer that has phantom power, etc, for $99 bucks (might be higher now). I was surprised at how quiet it runs at near full gain, and at how little it seemed to color the sound of the mics. Plenty of gain for my SM7b, very natural sounding, might give you pause before buying the M-Audio thing, if you are concerned about hiss at higher gain settings. I found the SC4 20 minutes after Guitar Center told me they were out of the M-Audio units, or else I would now be whining about M-Audio hiss myself.
Without being able to speak to the MD421 (I do want one, but haven't been able to justify it yet), the SM7b is quite versatile. Used it on loud rock vocals, great. But so far I've not found any other dynamic that sounds as good on my guitar cab...... except a Heil.
Me thinks Heil mics are too often over looked. The PR20 is a great cab mic to have ina pinch, a far cry better than any SM57. The PR30 and PR40 are the most condensor-like dynamic mics I've ever heard in my little basement flop, very similar to the AT4033. For the money, nobody should over look the Heil mics. They have some great testimonials from national brand users, and I know from home use that the hype is apparently justified. I dont regret selling very many mics, most I'm glad to be rid of, but I do regret selling the Heils and the Cascade Fathead. I am aching to try the Lundahl mod Fathead. And I cant wait to nab another PR40.
Which leads me to my other point, AT40-something mic is a great first condensor. Competitive price, and noticeably better sound than any of the Chinese budget condensors. I can say I am happy that I let go of all Chinese made mics in my possession.
I like Richards mention of using an AKG on the rear of an open back cab. I tried that, works great, sounds cool if you phase it and mix it accordingly, except I used a D770, also tried it with an EV ND468 which is another good cab mic even though it has a very characteristic EV sound like all EV mics do.
All that said, I voted for the Cascade Fathead in your other thread poll. I absolutely hate that high freq edge or presence peak in my guitar sound, and I know from experience that the ribbon will tame that harsh edge, even if it is a budget ribbon. Not my first choice, but of the two options in your poll I would take the ribbon for a guitar cab. If you are going to rely on it for everything else also, then get the 421.
(just kidding.....I couldn't stand the fact that nobody brought it up yet! LOL!)
I rented an MD421 once, I would describe it as the only Sennheiser mic I've ever wanted to keep. Unfortunately, I did not own my SM7b yet, so I could not tell you side by side comparisons.
I got lucky with a little Soundcraft Compact 4 mixer that has phantom power, etc, for $99 bucks (might be higher now). I was surprised at how quiet it runs at near full gain, and at how little it seemed to color the sound of the mics. Plenty of gain for my SM7b, very natural sounding, might give you pause before buying the M-Audio thing, if you are concerned about hiss at higher gain settings. I found the SC4 20 minutes after Guitar Center told me they were out of the M-Audio units, or else I would now be whining about M-Audio hiss myself.
Without being able to speak to the MD421 (I do want one, but haven't been able to justify it yet), the SM7b is quite versatile. Used it on loud rock vocals, great. But so far I've not found any other dynamic that sounds as good on my guitar cab...... except a Heil.
Me thinks Heil mics are too often over looked. The PR20 is a great cab mic to have ina pinch, a far cry better than any SM57. The PR30 and PR40 are the most condensor-like dynamic mics I've ever heard in my little basement flop, very similar to the AT4033. For the money, nobody should over look the Heil mics. They have some great testimonials from national brand users, and I know from home use that the hype is apparently justified. I dont regret selling very many mics, most I'm glad to be rid of, but I do regret selling the Heils and the Cascade Fathead. I am aching to try the Lundahl mod Fathead. And I cant wait to nab another PR40.
Which leads me to my other point, AT40-something mic is a great first condensor. Competitive price, and noticeably better sound than any of the Chinese budget condensors. I can say I am happy that I let go of all Chinese made mics in my possession.
I like Richards mention of using an AKG on the rear of an open back cab. I tried that, works great, sounds cool if you phase it and mix it accordingly, except I used a D770, also tried it with an EV ND468 which is another good cab mic even though it has a very characteristic EV sound like all EV mics do.
All that said, I voted for the Cascade Fathead in your other thread poll. I absolutely hate that high freq edge or presence peak in my guitar sound, and I know from experience that the ribbon will tame that harsh edge, even if it is a budget ribbon. Not my first choice, but of the two options in your poll I would take the ribbon for a guitar cab. If you are going to rely on it for everything else also, then get the 421.
Steenamaroo
...
R
Richard Monroe
Well-known member
Good mics will never need replacing because you modify a room. You just put them in a different place, and record something else.