Mic for Cab

  • Thread starter Thread starter billabob
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yer mate only thing is that they are expensive, and i have a £800 ($1200) budget for my whole set up. M-Audio fast track ultra is £210 which leaves £590. Then i gotta get Monitors, ones im getting are £240 which leaves exactly £350 from my budget for mic, i could probably stretch it a little bit.
xxx
 
hi again,,

just thought i'd chime in to say, don't be scared of buying used mics,,,

well,,,,used dynamic mics......they're not as sensitive,,and therefore harder to damage.(generally speaking)

my sm7b was brand new, but the 421s, re20 and all other EV dynamics were 2nd hand....


saved a fortune :)
 
I'd steer clear of questionable ebay deals with surprisingly low prices, unless you want a Chinese Sennheiser. For a regular Joe's sort of price, I like 8thstreet.com. Their prices are at the lower end, maybe not the lowest, but they usually don't screw up the order and they have a huge inventory. If you find yopu are willing to pay a little extra for personalized audio consultation, it's hard to beat Sweetwater. I would go to Mercenary Audio for wicked expensive gear, and a few units you didn't have to sell a car for. Those are my best bets. As to where I would shop in England, Australia, etc., or what the prices really are, I haven't got a clue. Talk to gear heads *where you are* about prices, and don't be sucked in by cheap alternative gear. Just get some, so you can expend all this energy on recording music, instead of agonizing over what gear you're going to use to do it. Best of luck, chap.-Richie
 
good point about ebay...

if it looks like it should be dear and it isn't,,,somethings wrong...

that said, i've had some absolute steals on ebay through people listing things badly.....or saying that things are broken, when really they just need a little tlc with a soldering iron around the xlr socket,lol


spend half of my life now searching for "sure microphone -shure" and stuff like that,lol
 
Anyone got any thoughts about the cascade fathead 2 that miroslav pointed out against the MD421? i know ribbons are meant to be the way forward but surely its better to buy a higher quality dynamic than a cheap ribbon?
xxxx
 
You're mixing apples and oranges...and it's not about price...it's about sound.

Check out all the comments about the Fat Head II on guitar cabs.
I would take the Fat Head over the MD421 on guitar cabs any day...it just gives a real mix-friendly guitar track 9-out-of-10 times...IMHO.

I've been using it on most of my guitar tracks and also when miking my Hammond organ. It just has a certain thick creaminess that I wasn't getting with any dynamics I've tried and that even goes for my Sennheiser MD441 which is even higher-end than the 421.

Not saying anything bad about the 421....but if the focus is guitar cabs, I think the Fat Head will sound better to most people.
The 421 has peaks up from 4kHz to 6kHz...which can bring out too much edgy bite on most guitar setups, as most guys seem to go for brighter to begin with.

http://www.sennheiserusa.com/media/productDownloads/productSheets/MD421II_ProductSheet.pdf



http://www.cascademicrophones.com/fh2_mic_report_p.pdf

If you look at the Fat Head curves, you can see that it's very smooth in the upper range, and I think that's why you get the creamy sound VS edgy/harsh.
Plus, the Fat Head has a better low end response than the 421, so you get a lot of body with little EQ effort.
I know folks use 421 mics on guitar cabs...I just think they are better suited for drums, where you may not want as much low end boost from the mic, and where you might want some perkiness in the upper range.

Go with your gut...it's not that big a deal. Whatever you don't buy now...you can buy later. :)
 
well the fat head II sounds good but how will it sound with my interface compared to the MD421? im getting a M-audio fast track ultra which ive been told if you push the gain on the pre amps it will give me a hissing noise which im desperatly trying to avoid. Has the fat face got a high enough output to mean i wont have to turn up the pre amps to much?
 
I say the ev re20 or sm7b or be happy with a sm57
 
read through the post...

there's a good reason that the md421 was recommended over the sm7b..

i own all three mics (421,re20 and sm7b)

haven't tested their outputs to prove the point, but memory/instinct says that the 421 is less gain hungry.


being happy with a 57 isn't a terrible suggestion though.....


i always like the attitude of "i'm really happy with my guitar sound using my only mic, a 57. i wander what i can do with a 421 or something" as apposed to, "this 57 guitar sound sucks, i'm gona buy a better mic and as such, definitely be a better producer/engineer" lol.

to op, that last bit isn't about you at all ;)
 
i have heard sm57's are great all round mic's but in the sound clips i've heard from them, i'm personally not to impressed which is why i'm looking at alternatives. I found a really nice demo of the cascade fathead II. Also the MD421. I am starting to lean towards the fat head II a little now.
Only worries i have are that i've never used a ribbon mic before and have heard they're easy to brake and whether it need lots of preamp gain that my interface will not support to a half decent sound quality?
xxx
 
Looking at the specs, the Fat Head is actually a touch more sensitive than the 421...which means it will output a slightly stronger signal...which means you will need less preamp gain than with the 421.

I've not noticed any hiss/noise, and I've not had to crank my preamps to get strong signals from the Fat Head...and I tend to mic my cabs about 16"-24" back and not right up against the grill.

Don't worry about breaking the ribbon...it handles 165 dB SPL!!!
It's durable, just don't blow into the mic to test it. :)
 
we should collect and post permanent shootouts on the forum,,,,,,just like, the common ones you know?

like 57 vs 421 on a cab, or sm7b/re20 on vocals etc

has this been suggested before?
 
ive just done a poll to finalise and summerise what we've been talking about in this poll. Please vote and state why :)
xxxx
 
Yo billabob! See? This is exactly what I said would happen. If you ask 10 engineers, "What's the best mic to record an Indian Vina?", you'll get ten answers, and nine of them will work just fine. You'll hate 5 of them, the other four will be "OK", and you'll probably end up using something none of them even suggested, with excellent results (or not).

That's why I use the system I use. It's conservative, but it works. I look at what the major studios use. If I can't afford that, I look at what they use in their "B" rooms or "C" rooms. The one thing it does for me is guarantee that I can resell the mic for a significant percentage of what I laid out for it, if it doesn't work out for me.

Miroslav's suggestion is a good example. He likes Cascade Fathead, because it works for him. He has plenty of available mics, including some high end models, but he uses that one, because he prefers it. Does it make him "right"? No. Does it make him "wrong"? No. Now I've never used any Chinese ribbon mic for anything, and if I were to come along and say it sucks, I would be making it up out of whole cloth, smoke and mirrors. I'll bet it works, because he says it does. Mostly, for cabs, I use AKG C2000B, Shure SM7b, and AKG D112 (only for the back of an open cab). Is my choice better than his in some way? Only two. First, it works for *me*. Second, those are the mics *I have*.

In the end, you are not going to get any agreement or consensus. The majority winner will most likely be Shure SM57, because it's a cheap mic that works for lots of people. I am pretty much unimpressed by it, but that's just me. Lots of perfectly good recordings have been made with it.

In the end, the only one who can tell you whether your cab mic works is *you*, and there is *no way* that anyone can tell you what that mic will be, in the end. Maybe if we all had the same feet, we could agree on shoes. If we had the same ears, we could agree on mics- don't hold your breath.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not the least concerned about whether you end up taking my advice, someone else's, or nobody's at all. I've seen what you are going through a million times. You are looking everywhere for *an answer*, and when you get one, you are fine until you get *another* answer. There are an unlimited number of answers, and they are all wrong and all right. It's like asking, "what is the best jam for toast?" The technical people will want to know if you mean whole wheat or white. Somebody will say gooseberry rocks.

You could take my advice (or anyone else's) and be disappointed with the results. We don't agree on what sounds good, and we aren't going to, either. It's not mathematics, it's art. And as far as ribbons go, they're not that fragile. Just don't blow into it, drop it, or turn on the phantom power.-Richie
 
Yer i see what you mean with the personal preference, there seems to be loads of different people quoting they like a different mic or the other.

I was starting to like the look of the fathead II until you said don't drop it, and i'm pretty accident prone also i know ill end up leaving the phantom power on my interface and buggering it. And i dont like the idea of buying a lower end ribbon mic. Im just gonna see how the pole goes then probably go with the MD421 anyway. Then When i get used to recording and gain experience and hopefully talent i will upgrade my equipment to suite. But i wont have to worry about that for a while yet :)

xxxx
 
Bingo billabob! Right now what you need to do is get a decent mic (any decent mic) and start recording your cab, instead of worrying about it.-Richie
 
Just to throw another fly or two into the ointment... :)

Looking at your budget breakdown...I would put more money into monitors than a mic (at this time).

Also...since you appear to be just going for *one* mic, that I assume you will use it for other things besides just guitar cabs...in that case, I would forgo both the 421 and the Fat Head and get a decent condenser….multi-pattern would be the best way to go.

I would not want either the Fat Head or the 421 as my only mic.
Yeah...you can stick both in front of everything...they are mics, they will pick up any source...but I think you will find that they are only "stellar" on some things.

IMHO...I decent condenser (preferably tube, FET is nice too) will cover ALL the bases without any shortcomings.
Yeah...maybe the 421 and F.H will sound great on some things, but I don't think either one will have the depth and range of a decent condenser to cover a multitude of things. Prior to using the F.H. on guitar cabs…my go to was a tube condenser (which I still think sound fantastic)…but I like the sound of the F.H enough to go with it. I’m actually surprised how often people always go for the same-old-same-old dynamic mics on guitar cabs…when a nice condenser has much more depth and range.

I know you said specifically a mic for a guitar cab...but how do you plan to record other elements?
Will you be using that same, one mic for everything?

I think you need to go to a decent music store and just audition a few different types of mics side-by-side so you get a sense of what the mics sound like.
Most of the guys making suggestions or voting for one or the other…probably have a few (if not a locker full of various) mics….so it’s less “critical” for them/us to say use this or that.

I prefer dynamic mics for live use, and like them for some recording chores…but for a small mic selection, I would prefer my main mic be a condenser.
 
Well, first things first. What type of music do you play and what type of guitar tone are you going for?

Any of these mics might be the perfect thing for you, but they all sound different. The sound you are trying to capture will determine which mic is the right one.
 
omfg people,,,seriously.....just leave him alone...



he asked what we think of a 421, and we all told him that give or take,,,,it's a fantastic mic....


we all know how rockable the "i'm buying one mic" boat can be,,,,,so why rock it?

billabob,,within reason, no matter what you buy will give you better results than your getting.


i'm not sure if miroslav is stirring it for a laugh,,but you asked how good a 421 is, and you've received suggestions about monitors, preamps, condensers and alternative dynamics......

i give it two days before someone tells you to blow the budget on acoustic treatment, if it hasn't happened already!:laughings::laughings::laughings:
 
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