ashcat_lt
Well-known member
Was going to reply to this thread here, but my reply in the thread you linked sums up my argument pretty well.
Was going to reply to this thread here, but my reply in the thread you linked sums up my argument pretty well.
Dave, yeah. Take solace it's not you. When/where people put stuff up Sweetwater.. calling you out on this again in this case, that is misleading and/or gets about half of it right.this article treats the 3:1 technique as one mono source
What is "3:1 Rule of Microphone Placement - inSync"?
"The 3:1 Rule works because the level of the signal entering the second mic (the one farther away) is reduced in level compared to the signal entering the first mic"
this seems strange as one mic cant be further away than the source when there is technically two sources (voice, guitar)
maybe I'm Getting confused somewhere
"When using two microphones to record a source, normally you will get the best results by placing the second mic three times the distance from the first mic that the first mic is from the source. This is known as the “3:1 Rule of Microphone Placement.”
An example: If the first mic is 1 foot from a source, the second mic should be placed 3 feet from the first mic. "
Wrong. Many damn well understand it does 'minimize phase cancellation''.While many engineers believe that adhering to the 3:1 Rule will minimize phase cancellation, ..
So... wrong again. In fact ..THEY FRICKIN SAY AS MUCH in the next part.technically this is not true.
The 3:1 Rule works because the level of the signal entering the second mic (the one farther away) is reduced in level compared to the signal entering the first mic; tripling the distance substantially reduces the relative level of the signal in the two mics. This reduces the effects of phase cancellation, since the most cancellation will occur when the two mic signal levels are equal.
Finally here they get to the fundamental flaw in beginning with advocating 3:1 as a near/far technique in the first place.In fact, if you crank up the gain on the second, more distant mic, you will still hear phase cancellation when it is added to the first mic
To that I'd say, what this thread and most like it mostly can be is chatting (hopefully clear and accurately :>) about the basics, or the 'how and whys of various techniques.I am just curious as to all the live performers that sing into a mic and play their ge-tar at the same time do it. I love listening to live recordings and they sound just fine.
(hopefully clear and accurately :>)
I like this. Right to the point of it!It's been stated pretty clearly a number of times.
In this instance, you want the vocals to be significantly louder in the vocal mic than the guitar is, and likewise the guitar should be louder in its own mic than the voice is.
You don't need to worry about 3:1 in terms of distance. Think of it in terms of relative volume, and use distance and polar patterns to achieve it. Most likely, you're going to need more than 9db separation at both mics because you're going to compress and EQ both.
Edit -
Seriously like put the mic where you think it sounds good on the guitar, then other one where you want it for the face. Set the levels on each however you normally would. Hit the guitar. What's the difference between the two meters? That needs to be as great as possible. Move the mics until you've compromised too much and then accept I the limitations you've placed on yourself.
do you have to engage to figure 8 setting on the mic? or does it just have to be a mic with this feature?
hope that makes sense
The room begins to become much more important in this situation, too, but I completely agree.If you get a good performer with good vocals and guitar technique it is easy to get a good result.
do you have to engage to figure 8 setting on the mic? or does it just have to be a mic with this feature?
hope that makes sense
Man this sure sounded familiar ...You have to have 2 mics with a figure 8 option and you have to engage it.
Alan.
To that I'd say, what this thread and most like it mostly can be is chatting (hopefully clear and accurately :>) about the basics, or the 'how and whys of various techniques.
But hey I feel the same way with those 'superb sounding live vocals on a ball mic tracks out there.
Not a trivial thing IMHO :
Here's another one to toss in.
'Timid singer sitting hunched over his/her guitar... We fooked
'Singer standing, guitar slung not too high.. Mic it. Print it. Wipe hands on pants it's Miller time
should one stand when recording guitar and vox simultaneously? I guess this would isolate each source better as well as making it easier to follow the 3:1 rule.