Mic Cabinet expansion plan..

G

Guardian

New member
#1

Ok..let's see what people think...I definitely want a U87 at some point..or a U89..I haven't actually heard both of them to see what I like the sound of better..just the specs/graphs..from that, I'd go with the U89 over the U87, if I had to pick one or the other...anyone comment?

#2

My current plan to expand my little cabinet is:

2 AKG C414B/ULS
2 Sennheiser MD421's
and another C3000b <I have one already>

..or would it be better to make my Neumann investment FIRST, and then pick up some C414's and another few toys when the money comes around..I definitely also want a stereo pair of KM184's and matched Dragonfly's....
............so basically Neumann first, or wait on it..
 
I think the other question is what do you have already?

Those mics are out of reach for most of us.
 
well

I'll be using them for anything/everything..Stereo mic an acoustic guitar maybe, vocals, string bass, stereo mic'ing in general., piano, etc etc...from what I've heard/read, the C414 is one of those gotta-have-in-your-cabinet kinda mics that you can do anything with..I was just wondering if I ever get some $, if I should bite down and buy the Neumann I've always wanted, or invest in more of an arsenal....Right now, I don't have a major lineup, but I can record anything and have it sound good..

So far, I've got some 57's, beta 57s, beta 52, AT 3528's, R0DE NT3s, an AKG C3000b (which is really sweet I must mention), and a pair of NT1000's...increasing my cabinet is my next 'step', once I get the mixer/multitracks paid off....

..Then again..Maybe I'll just say forget Neumann and everyone else, and just buy a pair of Earthworks SR77's and QCT1's...if I could, I would record everything as exactly to 'as is' as possible, and then use EQ and whatnot down the recording chain..but having a cabinet is like having a lot of different colors on a pallete, and EQ presets, sound 'character', etc..so if I had a million dollars..

Just wanted to see some opinions....that and the U89 vs U87..from what Neumann says, the U89 is a modernized version of the 87..
 
Diversify young man!!

Personally, I'd look into spending the money on a pair of top notch preamps assuming your using mackie preamps or something like that.I'm not saying the mackie pres are bad but why buy a neumann u87 if your plugging it into let's say, a behringer board.You would probably be happier with mid priced condenser certainly a 414 is worth putting in any mic cabinet and team it up with a grace 101 preamp (never heard it personally but people are raving over it).I feel you will get more money's worth improving your overall sound chain and addressing areas that are often overlooked.My buddy is in the process of racking up a pair of Trident preamps for me,let's just say I can't wait!!!!!
Anyway's option two would be the way I'd go and add a nice preamp!!!Peace!!:D
 
The only reason to get a u87 right now IMO is for marketing your studio.

Many of the pros say that a C1 sounds just like a u87 if not a bit better. So why not get that?

The 414's are great mics, to date I don't think there are any really great cheep mics that sound like it. I've heard people say they can be used for about anything and everything. Great mics, kind of the swiss army kife of mics in some peoples opinons.

As someone said above a good preamp is the key to good sound after the mic. A C1 and a great preamp will blow a u87 and mackie premap out of the water. So the money might be better spent their.

I would go with the 414's and so on...
 
I'm totally on the doubting boat with the C1 and Neumann comparison, I dont care what everyone else says. I know the C1 doesnt stand up to the TLM-103, but I think the C3 might be right next to it for a better price. I'd give anything to hear them side by side, in tracks. As for picking something else, I too would go with a big clean preamp, a Great River MP2 being my 1st choice. Good price, excellent quality, big sound, good resale value. What more is there to say? If you want to save a little and go the tube route, audition a Peavey/AMR VMP-2 preamp and see what you think. Try the VMP-2 and great river with a C3 and Neumann Tlm103 and see which you prefer.
 
This was done with a TLM-103 and Focusrite REd series pre and compressor... we squashed alot of the life out of the vocals with the Red compressor, because that compressor just sounded wonderful on the Mackies in 24 bit, the more we sqaushed it, the creamier it got.. it kinda lost something in the conversion to 16 bit, but still sounds pretty thick. Good combo, to say the least.
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/243/tubetude.html
 
pre's

Well, at least from what I know, the point of a preamp is to just boost the mic signal..in an ideal world, I'd love for my Mackie 32*8's preamps not to color the Mic at all..I'd want a preamp that just amplifies without coloring...but people are pairing pre's with mics to add character/color to the mic..so it's kinda like I guess you can take a mic and change it around with different preamps..or could you do the same thing with careful EQ..? I have a Tube MP that I bought because I needed another preamp back when I was still using my 1402 VLZ pro, and it could be a direct box too..

I'm 99% sure I'll expand the cabinet and save the Neumann for marketting later on..

BTW, that track sounds really good..it helps I guess when the performers are good too, and you're not having to compensate for weak performances, and/or getting frustrated..
 
Check this

This is one of the things I mixed in the 'crunch' when the band gave me 4 days to mix 4 songs, when I had a ton of other stuff to do...anyone reading this lemme know what you think of the recording/mixing..I'm thinking the vocals are a bit prominent, but then when I think about dropping them, I like it where it is..the band likes it too..they've been playing it on a local college radio station, so I guess it's cool that my first paying customer got radio play..hope it's me and not the song :P



PS, the band guy wants exposure, so he was all for letting people listen.

---Sal
 
Stop saying apples are better than oranges!

Many of the pros say that a C1 sounds just like a u87 if not a bit better
Click to expand...

Aaaaahhhhh this "joe" mic sounds better than that "schmoe" mic has got to end!!!
It's taken out of context, no true pro would ever say something as silly unless he was referring to a certain situation for example: "to record this particular singer in this room with that preamp I found that mic X sounded better than Y" etc...

A did a quick search on r.a.p to see what the pros had indeed said and came up with this funny thread by Mixerman :

"News Flash!!! The C-1 DOES sound just like a U87!!!!

Blindfolded, (I did a double blind, blind double blind test) I could not
accurately tell the difference in sound between the C1 and the U87 hitting
the floor. Of course, I'd never actually drop a U87 on the floor, so I
asked around to some 'pros' who have heard a U87 hitting the floor in their
travels. They said it sounds EXACTLY like a C1 hitting the floor (except
for the big 'AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!' that you typically hear after the U87
hits the floor).

I dropped a C1to prove to _myself_ that there was no difference. The sound
of the C1 hitting the floor was clear, big, warm, transparent, fat, and
clunky upon landing! After hearing that, I'm convinced there is no
difference. The best part is that in this experiment, I'm only out a few
hundred dollars, rather than the thousands I'd be out if I actually dropped
a U87 too.

I'm very intelligent.

Mixerprosumerman

P.S. Last week I recorded a vocal on an album (with a $500,000 budget, and
the pick of any mic in a multi-million dollar studio) on a $75 microphone.
The singer sounded best with this particular mic. Go figure."



That last part about using the $75 mic clearly illustrates that there is no overall better mic.

Ok???
 
very nice!

tubedude said:
This was done with a TLM-103 and Focusrite REd series pre and compressor... we squashed alot of the life out of the vocals with the Red compressor, because that compressor just sounded wonderful on the Mackies in 24 bit, the more we sqaushed it, the creamier it got.. it kinda lost something in the conversion to 16 bit, but still sounds pretty thick. Good combo, to say the least.
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/243/tubetude.html
Click to expand...

The vocals do sound quite nice. I must admit that TLM-103 and Focusrite Red combo did you proud!
2 Questions: Do you feel that the TLM outdoes the c-1 based on the type of vocals you recorded here? (these are very deep voice and sound like you were pusing alot of air on the choruses, similar to how I think my vocals would end up if I did rock like this)

What did you use for the guitar tracks? They sound awsome! They really add some originality to the style of music. Most guys use that same post grunge, really dirty rectified sound, but these have way more definition to them, not overly distorted and the solo tone is really nice as well!

nP
 
The guitar amp was an old wore out Mesa Quad that I had for awhile, running through a Marshall power amp. It was double miced with a Beta 57 and a Sennheiser (the little square one). The secret I think was just getting that little Sennheiser positioned in a good spot and running it throught the Red preamp.
All toms had the same Sennheisers on them too, and I think they sound fat... but here is the scary part... all the toms mic preamps were Mackie VLZ pros. The mics really make a difference, and that little Sennheiser is killer.
I do think that the TLM-103 beats the C1, but I've never had up close and personal with the C1, I'm just going from what I heard on everyone elses stuff. I think the C3 is much better than the C1, but I would have to hear the TLM and C3 side by side to make any sort of real judgement. I may just have that opportunity soon, althought things never work out as anticipated. Ever.
Oh, last thing... I try to get a good balance between not too dirty and not too scooped, but scooped enough to sit nice in the mix., and not too clean, either. I ususally have the gain at noon, where most seem to have it floored at 5:00, so, that helps a little, I think.
Peace.
 
what kind of cabinet?

I agree with you on the gain thing. Noon is enough, but most people overdue it cuz they are so used to playing live and never rethinking their sound for recording.

So did you use a 4x12 cabinet, or 2x12, 1x12? Which speaker did you mike?

Just curious cuz some people I know actually get great sounds out of much smaller cabinets, soemtimes a 1x10 will do the trick...


nP
 
4x12 Marshall cab with Celestions...
Oh, and beleive it or not, that clean sound was from a little $50 Marshall combo with a 10 inch generic speaker in it. Everyone like dit better except me. I kinda like it now though.
 
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