Mic Brand Name...... Who Cares?

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2lim

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I have a few questions about why people put down certain mics due to there cost or brand name. When i look gfor mics it is solely based on the sound they make. Sometimes i need a cheap no-name mic. Sometimes i need an expensive name brand mic, but either way i have had good experiances buying both types of mics.
 
Sorry, but brand and cost are probably the two biggest of the many consideration factors when selecting a microphones; no way getting around it.
 
All i am saying is that name brand mics are not the ONLY good mics out there you can find good mics that are not the typical name brands
 
With quality comes price. You get what you pay for.

About how one mic sounds compared to another: If you are using a lowend mixer or mic pre, I am sure that you will not notice MUCH difference between a high dollar mic and a budget mic. Remember, your sound quality is as only as good as your weakest link in your signal path.

[This message has been edited by Fishmed (edited 06-24-2000).]
 
Hey 2lim,

I'm from London too =)

what are the chances =)

Just wondering... where do U get your stuff.... London sucks ars fer recording equip....
 
2lim...you said you sometimes needed a cheap no-name mic...what on earth for?....if you really want an unprofessional sound, you could just screw up the phrasing or eq the sound to hell and back and screw around with compression and get a shit sound using a good mic, couldn't ya?...but to get a great sound you need a good mic.....the differences are staggering, no kidding, just between a radshak and an sm you'd feel like you'd had an epiphany....I didn't really realize the importance of this til I'd read lots of RE posts (who by the way I thought was a cranky, humorless 60 year old, til I found out he was a cranky, humorless 21 year old)...read his posts, dude, you'll be glad you did......gibs
 
Fishmed & gibs are right... And think of it what they were saying the other way too.

Yeah, after people read my posts, they realize I have quite a few "non-big brand" mics, but I don't consider them cheap, quality-wise; regardless of price... And find-out I'm "a cranky, humorless 21 year old" too.

Damn you, gibs!!! You found-out my true identity.

I don't know. Maybe it's because I've ran into too many people who weren't joking...
 
Sometimes i like their sound better...... Sabith i get my stuff from my friend's dad wjo owns a music shop out of town...... i might remind you that i only have a four track analog with dynamic mics. And as for the rest of you...... you are right, i see now that the reason i don't see the dif is because i don't have a preamp, and my mixer is on my puter... thanx for bringing that up
 
While I agree that there are a lot of great mics that also cost quite a lot of money,I think that as time goes on,in mics and in all categories of gear,one starts seeing the diminishing returns effect,which is to say that on a scale of 1 to 100,quite a few relatively inexpensive mics are capable of a 70 in performance,but after about 80 on the sma scale,the cost increase starts becoming disproportionate to the improvement in performance,except of course in the eyes of those who will go to any length to obtain that last modicum of wonderfulness.I ain't one of those people,at least not any more,but to each his own.Cheers!
 
A 60 year old, now thats more like it LOL
I though he was a bit toooo knowledgable for a 45 year old...he he(duno bout the 21 bit though heh) only joking RE :D

Tony
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sonusman:

I think there are far too many people trying to get into the mic game, and are not producing product that is worthy of consideration. If you want the sure bets, well, buy Shure.... :), and looks into the other "staples" that grace many top notch recording studios. I am certainly glad that many out there are buying these new cheap knock off mics, because it is starting to drive the price of the mics I want down quite a bit.... :) So, those of you who just can't seem to get over the $400 mark on a mic, THANKS!!! Keep up the good work! I will continue to purchase the old stand by's, and hopefully, my recordings will reflect the superior characteristics of these proven mics for years to come.

Ed

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know, It's kind of funny, but I have one Sure microphone; and it sits in my Mic drawer. (I have a drawer that a keep Microphones in.)
I guess after using Shures for so long in a live situation (used to have 18 SM57's out of 24 mics for the PA), I just don't like using them for recording. It may just be an Anti-Shure reaction to them; I don't know.
I like the 57 on Snare-but I prefer an EV N/D157B (like a 57 with more "Top end" to it) or Beyer's M422-which is the one I'll usually use.

I got rid of a bunch of the 57's, and used the money to buy AKG's, Beyer, etc.
I guess I just tend to see the 57's as "live" mic's....


Tim
 
Mics are a funny thing. If you really want the kinds of sounds you hear on other recordings, well, you are going to have to have some pretty "standard" mics around to get those sounds.

Here is a question. Do you really know what sounds good when you hear it? Are your monitors telling you the truth about the sound?

Not only will bad mic pre's mess with your sound, but crappy monitors will cause you to think you are getting a sound on tape that you really are not.

virtual.ray Take that 10 to 20% difference in quality, and times that by how many tracks you are going to record. Sure, you are still only down 10 or 20% in audio quality, but I tell you what, 10 to 20 % difference is a HUGE difference in audio. Bottom line there friend. Diminished returns are not something that should be ever accepted in audio, if you are in the game to do it well. Sure, that NT1 may be 70% as good as a Neumann U 87, but cost 1/10th the price. But, paying that extra 900% for the Neumann is totally worth it in my book. When you consider that I can win clients just from having one, well, can I afford NOT to have one. Plus, I think that you will find that the better quality mics wind up being used far more in your recordings. So, their price vs. usage ratio is excellent.

It is one thing if you are just trying to hear your songs back. But when you are going for a "sound", price should never come into play at two stages in audio, the mics, and the monitors. These are the two mechanical interfaces of audio, and have the biggest bearing on the over quality of the finished product. I would rather skimp on compressors, and effect processors then skimp on mics and monitors.

There are some mics which just plain don't sound good for most things. Sure, they will have a good use here and there, but mostly, they are just cheap sounding mics. On the other hand, there are many mics out there that have multiple uses that they sound good on. The Shure SM-57, and 81 are killer examples of this. The AKG 414 is another. The RE 20, or better yet, 27 n/d is another. These are staples in studios because they deliver predictable results, and the results are very pleasing to most peoples ears. There are some of the mics that have defined great recordings for a few decades now. There really is no argueing whether they are a better choice, because inevitably they are. Many of these "newcomer" mics just don't provide the consistent quality sound, and many of them are of very poor contruction.

There are many cases where some of these newer mics out are much higher priced then older, more established mics for the similar uses. The Audex D series stuff is an example. They are pushed as being better sounding them SM-57, but, to my ears, I have yet to hear how they are. In fact, many engineer who were intitially impressed with the Audex mics went back to the 57's after just a few sessions with the Audex stuff. They found that they were never able to get wholesome sounding snare and tom tracks at mix with them. Those D series mics are like twice the price of the old tried and true 57.

I think there are far too many people trying to get into the mic game, and are not producing product that is worthy of consideration. If you want the sure bets, well, buy Shure.... :), and looks into the other "staples" that grace many top notch recording studios. I am certainly glad that many out there are buying these new cheap knock off mics, because it is starting to drive the price of the mics I want down quite a bit.... :) So, those of you who just can't seem to get over the $400 mark on a mic, THANKS!!! Keep up the good work! I will continue to purchase the old stand by's, and hopefully, my recordings will reflect the superior characteristics of these proven mics for years to come.

Ed
 
Hi Sonusman,I enjoyed reading your post on this subject.You made some valid points from a different perspective,that of using these tools in a commercial environment.If that were my situation,Iwould also surely make it a priority to own at least 1 of the big name mics,for all the reasons you gave.I have in the past recorded at a few 24 track analog studios that were indeed equipped with U 87s and 414s etc. and I know that these and other mics in that price range sound great.I was writing from my current perspective in my post,however,which is like many people here that of a small home setup.My multitrack,for example,cost less than half the US price of a U 87(a Roland VS880EX),and all my comments were in light of that reality.But it's good that you made those points on this subject for those who have an idea of making recording a source of income in addition to fun.Cheers!
 
Hey virtual.ray, I of course can appreciate the idea of "budget".... :) Trust me, my mic pack is not up to par for what I would like.

I suppose more of the point I was making is that there are many "affordable" mics out there with very proven track records. What is discouraging is that even with all the options, from affordable to very expensive, companies like Marshall, Alesis, and now even Carvin feel the need to make mics.

Hey, my main mic is a pair of AT 4033's. Certainly not a Nuemann 87, or a AKG 414. But, this mic delivers a great sound, and has come down in price significantly over the past 2 years (hell, you can buy one new for about what I paid for one used 3 years ago). I have has the opportunity to put the 4033, and a 4050 against some pretty top notch compitition, and all in all, it is in league with it, if not a little LESS versatile.

I suppose the worst place that compitition has gone bad is in the large diaphram condensor department. EVERYBODY is making one. I won't be surprised to see WalMart come out with their entry into this market soon.... :) But really, very few, if any of these low end mics are breaking any new ground. They sound cheap, and are cheap.

Tim Brown. Well, to each their own. Certainly, I have found times when other mics work better then a 57, even on drums. The Audex mics are perfect of the drummer with 2 year old heads! :)

I once did a session and used a 414 on the snare. Man, talk about a brilliant snare sound! But, by the same token, that snare was tuned rather bad, and needed the increased top end presence that the 414 provided. I tried to talk to producer into retuning the drum and using the 57 because I felt the track would have more meat to it. They didn't, and, well, the song survived. But,that snare track was not as top end brilliant as snares I have recorded with a 57 where the snare was tuned well. We also had a hell of a time with transients while tracking with 414. This is just an example.
I have heard decent enough drum tracks using the 157's, and many other types of mics. But, I suppose when it really comes down to it, the 57 delivers very predictable results when you got a drummer and drum set that is very good.... :) And those results are what you can find documented on many CD's.

Not trying to start a pissing match here at all guys. Just illustrating that often, other mics seem to sound much better because of bad source sound, and bad micing techniques. We base what we are after in a sound upon what we have heard in the past. About the only mic that comes close to be documented on tape as much as Shure 57's would be 421's. I like 421's for certain things. Anyway, that is all my point is.

Peace.

Ed
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sonusman:

Not trying to start a pissing match here at all guys. Just illustrating that often, other mics seem to sound much better because of bad source sound, and bad micing techniques. We base what we are after in a sound upon what we have heard in the past. About the only mic that comes close to be documented on tape as much as Shure 57's would be 421's. I like 421's for certain things. Anyway, that is all my point is.

Peace.

Ed
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Nope, definitely not a pissing match.
I'm just looking at it from the perspective of a guy starting out with a 4-track.
Not everyone can afford to even break the $100 per mic price range.

I love 421's.

I burned up a pair of C414's. This "engineer" decided they would sound good on my Kick drums. About an inch from where the Maellet strikes the skin.
Sounded great during the sessions, but his mic's quit working right after it.
So, keep those Condenser mics away from the striking point on a kick drum! At least a few inches.
I like Re-20's, PL-20's, D-12 (if you can actually find them),D112's, etc...

I prefer using 421's on toms, given the chance-but half the time I trigger.
I generally just mic the kicks(D112's mounted internally), snare(Beyer m422), and a PZM mounted overhead if I'm looking for a Soundgarden/ John Bonham type of Drumsound.
But the Toms I'll trigger to fatten them up, or if i want any panning action-I'll just mix it in to add more depth.

I wasn't knocking ya at all, and I hope I didn't come across as such!
I was just looking at it from the perspective of "Teenager + 4-track = no cash".
I rmember when I was a teenager what a pain it was to save a hundred bucks to put on a pair of Radio Shack PZM's.
I made alot of good recordings with them, so I kind of have a love for the PZM's.
I went to buy a few more-and RS had quit carrying them-Now I guess I'll have to pay full price for the Crown PZMs!


Tim
 
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