Mic attenuation question (Rode NT2-A, Zoom h4n)

R

RecNewbie

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Hi all,
hope this is the right section, since I'm a professional musician but I just got started with this whole recording thing.

I will have to record a concert with 2vl. soloists + small orchestra (no info on venue yet, presumably interior, might be a church).
I have a passable audio card (Scarlett 2i2) but can't use it due to no laptop/PC/MAC/Android USB OTG available, so I will scale back and use the tried and true (if noisy and consumer-level) Zoom h4n.

My questions:
1. Testing the Zoom with the Rode NT2-A (4 tracks: 2 built-in + 1 Phantom powered input for the Rode) and a solo instrument I had to set the level very low (20 on the Zoom's 1-100 scale).
Is it better to set the level higher and use the built in -5 or -10 attenuators on the Rode? I had read something - can't recall where - about using levels around 40 on the Zoom to get best results.*
Also, do I run the risk of damaging the pres on the Zoom with too high a level?

2. I plan on using the Zoom's built-in XY in order to get a stereo image (120 degrees setting) and to use the Rode as an accent mic for the two soloists.
How high/far would you put it, and how? I'm thinking camera left (since violin sound goes mainly to the right of the performer), 1 to 2m away, just above their heads.

Thx in advance

*Edit: Ah, there it is!
Martin Doppelbauer's blog, field recorders test, part II, conclusions (can't post link yet)
"It seems fair to conclude that the Zoom H4n, using its unbalanced 1/4" or 1/8" TRS inputs, should not be operated below a record level of 40 in order to avoid audible distortions even in the low frequency range."
Will this affect me or not, since I will be using 3-pin XLR cables - which should be balanced?
 
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Plug in the mic....set it to "0"...turn on your pre/phantom....test the mic. If the signal is too hot even with pre set low, use attenuate at the mic....if not, leave it alone and then set the level you desire at the pre.
 
Just as a general FYI this being the noob section.....

You cannot damage a pre amp input with unusually high levels, any 1/2 decent input, mic,line, instrument, will have some protection built in and certainly no microphone will generate enough voltage to defeat that. Even a line level signal, 20dB hotter than a mic will not damage anything (it will of course be as distorted as ***k!) .

There are two sources to be wary of...power amp, i.e. speaker outs and phantom power. The last can destroy input devices because 48V is well above the internal supplies of most kit.

The above applies to decent gear. If you buy really cheapass ***t well, yer pays yer money???

Dave.
 
Good advice from Miroslav and ECC but I'll add one thing...

The external mic pre amps on the H4N are known to get a bit noisy especially if you have to push the levels up high. This shouldn't be an issue with NT2A mics which have a healthy output level but, if you get to a point in setting up your gain structure where it's a toss up between attenuating the mic or turning down the H4N gain, I'd turn down the H4N gain.
 
@miroslav
ok

@ecc83
The h4n is cheap but not that cheap... it can provide 24V & 48V no problems

@Bobbsy
Exactly the answer I was looking for, thanks & rep+
 
It's the thought counts!

(Though I still prefer a nice Neumann microphone to kind thoughts...)
 
Bobbsy said:
The external mic pre amps on the H4N are known to get a bit noisy especially if you have to push the levels up high. This shouldn't be an issue with NT2A mics which have a healthy output level but, if you get to a point in setting up your gain structure where it's a toss up between attenuating the mic or turning down the H4N gain, I'd turn down the H4N gain.
Click to expand...

The preamps on the H4n are indeed noisy. IMO not just a bit. A lot! I've been using an external preamp (RME Quadmic) with mine and it's night and day. Love that little fucker to death though, it's a great recorder.

You can't really bypass the internal preamps completely, but if you have the newest firmware you'll be able to set the gain at 0,1 (instead of the original 1,0) so there is no noise left.
 
dainbramage said:
The preamps on the H4n are indeed noisy. IMO not just a bit. A lot! I've been using an external preamp (RME Quadmic) with mine and it's night and day. Love that little fucker to death though, it's a great recorder.

You can't really bypass the internal press completely, but if you have the newest firmware you'll be able to set the gain at 0,1 (instead of the original 1,0) so there is no noise left.
Click to expand...

I'd be upset if there wasn't, it costs more than double what I paid for my Zoom & you still need an external mic.
I'm not looking for perfect quality, just the best possible with what I have.
I also thought about bringing a car battery with myself (no AC on venue: hard to record with an external sound card, then I'd need a pc or something), but in the end I decided to K.I.S.S. and just bring the Zoom, plus the Rode.

That's interesting info at any rate.
You say that you can keep the gain low on the Zoom h4n (I'm guessing you're referring to the Zoom?), but how are you routing the almost clean, almost unamplified signal to the "good" pre since the Zoom doesn't have a line out?
Some magic trick I don't know?
 
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