Metal Rig advice

  • Thread starter Thread starter VesuviusJay
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^ Unearth does use 7-strings, and when I saw them were rocking Triple's. But I think he wants more of a death metal tone than the metalcore sound (killswitch, as i lay dying, black dahlia murder). But good advice.
 
Ive never heard a krank I liked. Of course, they could have been in the wrong hands, because Ive heard plenty of dual recs that sound terrible just because the gain was up all the way. I really like the 5150 II, especialy for the price.
 
I'm not even a heavy metal or death metal player but I've learned TONS more than I ever realized about that sound and what defines it.

I love this site.

-jimbo, bringer of jazz and funk and all things groovy
 
metalhead28 said:
Thought this might be a good bit to add to this thread!

Best Death/Grind guitar tones I've heard live and the amps:
(these are all fairly recent because my memory ain't that good!!)

Cattle Decapitation >>Bogner Uberschall + Engl half stacks (split signal) (fucking amazing! :eek: )
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I was going to mention this! Josh Elmore's tone (and his playing) are amazing. One of my favorite metal bands to see live.

Also, surprisingly, Dying Fetus use solid state Ampegs and get great tone out of them.

Unless you want to sound like most of the run-of-the-mill metalcore garbage thats out there right now (why oh why are there so many talented guitarists in downright mediocre bands???), I would avoid the Mesa, unless you can find a way to get a really unique sound from it.
 
Man, it's sad to see people avoiding a truely amazing amp (and for a good reason) just because tons of people use it. If there was an amazing guitar, but lots of people used it, would you avoid it for that reason? An amp is only one part of your tone. Your guitar, your pedals, your EQ, your cab all are going to be factors. But to each his own. I say, make the drive to try them out, cause you won't know for certain until you crank them up and make them growl.
 
metalhead28 said:
Thought this might be a good bit to add to this thread!

Best Death/Grind guitar tones I've heard live and the amps:
(these are all fairly recent because my memory ain't that good!!)

Cattle Decapitation >>Bogner Uberschall + Engl half stacks (split signal) (fucking amazing! :eek: )

Suffocation >> Peavey XXX full stacks

Vader >> JCM2000 half stacks

Behemoth >> 5150 II half stacks
Click to expand...
Your sig cracks me up! :D
 
I don't know how you can count Randall's out so fast. There are a lot of things you can say about them, especially newer ones (quality control
issues,etc.) but saying they have no balls is not one of them.

I have an 80's model Randall 70 watt combo (RC235), and it can get a HEAVY sound for a combo. I have had many people I have jammed with comment on the great heavy tone. If you have some good hot pickups you can get a great modern sound all by itself without effects. Try to find something like an RG100ES. Those suckers just have a nice heavy sound, solid state or not. Sh*t, you can't get much heavier than Dimes rythm tone, and that is what he started out using live, anyway. My idea of nice heavy tone is something along the lines of Pepper Keenan (COC,Down) Dime (duh), Zakk (Black Label Society). All these guys use different amps, but get a similar tone out of them.

What I am using right now, is a 120 watt all tube amp called a Red Bear. It was imported from Russia by Gibson in the early\mid 90's. This thing is f***ing BRUTAL. It is all tube and basically sounds somewhat like a JCM800 crossed with a plexi but with more bottom end "chug". I have been offered all kinds of stuff in trade for it...lol. I wouldn't even trade it for a JCM800 head that a friend of mine had. The JCM800 is worth more, but I am not sure that I could track down another Red Bear in as good condition as mine and everyone and their brother has a JCM800. So it gives me a real original sound. I should not even say this, because right now they are still pretty reasonably priced, and I plan on getting a couple more if I can.

I guess what i am saying is, don't be afraid to think outside of the box here. Lots of people are content with having the same old sound. Sometimes it is better to find something off the beaten track to the get the sound you like.
 
wishtheend said:
Man, it's sad to see people avoiding a truely amazing amp (and for a good reason) just because tons of people use it. If there was an amazing guitar, but lots of people used it, would you avoid it for that reason? An amp is only one part of your tone. Your guitar, your pedals, your EQ, your cab all are going to be factors. But to each his own. I say, make the drive to try them out, cause you won't know for certain until you crank them up and make them growl.
Click to expand...

I agree with you there. So far I have not found anything better than the triple rectifier. But like a few of you have stated, there are products available at an equal level of quality and yet a unique tone. I want my live guitar tone to be as unique as possible when compared to other bands of those genres. That will be one of the things that sets our music apart from the "norm". But I will agree the right amp will possess all of the key features listed above. I have a good feeling about the krank but I may just end up laughing at myself for driving so far to listen to mediocrity.
 
VesuviusJay said:
Hailz metalheads!

I am shopping for a full stack guitar rig that will embrace the extreme metal genres. Any suggestions.

I have been looking at mesa and Krank. I've had mesa triple rec rig. Good stuff but too many nu metal bands have mesa tone now. I am looking for a unique tone that has hard crunching palm mutes and stinging highs...
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I vote for a 5150 or a Hughes and Ketter Triamp MKII. The H&K metal sound is by far the best I have ever heard. Tight, focussed, harmonically rich, flexible, and HEAVY. But it is expesive.

http://www.hughes-and-kettner.com/scripts/products.php?mode=prod&pk_type=customtube&lang=en&id=1
 
I have a friend who is definitely a death metal player, and his guitar player had a Hughes and Kettner and a crappy Digitech RP50...it was defintely,for the money, the most death,mayhem and destruction per ounce I'd heard for that style.

Peavey's tube amps are definitely underated IMO, but whatever they'd done with 5150's seems to have created an exception to their otherwise SolidStateOfTheArt reputation.

Randalls are fizzy- but isn't that part of the appeal? :)
 
i use a peavey ultra plus (prerunner to the XXX) and it gets a good metal sound, (i actually raise the mids a bit for my hardcore style), but i was A/B ing last week with my older ampeg ss150... and that solid state head is true early 80's metal... i was thinking of selling it but now i dont know... anyway these are both affordable amps... but if you have the money to blow go get a Bogner Uberschall... thats a f#@$!ng amp!!
 
Crunchy Tone?

I did two clips to compare the high gain tones of the mesa and 5150 to the low gain Chunk that I prefer.

playing the same riff, one sounds like thunder and one sounds like rain. Which do you prefer.



 
I own a Peavey XXX and I got it modded via Voodoo Amps. This thing screams metal. and I'm not talking radio friendly metal, but real metal. Trace did an amazing job. On its own, the XXX is a very nice sounding amp, if you tweak it right. A lot of bands seem to be using it and getting a huge amount of variation. I honestly feel as though I could play Jazz with it i I wanted to. With three channels, all with separate EQ, you can't go wrong. And the price is fantastic. You can get the head and the mod for less than a mesa.
 
Echelon said:
I own a Peavey XXX and I got it modded via Voodoo Amps. This thing screams metal. and I'm not talking radio friendly metal, but real metal. Trace did an amazing job. On its own, the XXX is a very nice sounding amp, if you tweak it right. A lot of bands seem to be using it and getting a huge amount of variation. I honestly feel as though I could play Jazz with it i I wanted to. With three channels, all with separate EQ, you can't go wrong. And the price is fantastic. You can get the head and the mod for less than a mesa.
Click to expand...

I have a rockmaster which uses pretty much the same circuit as the xxx preamp. That thing can sound MONSTER. I like it best when the gain is turned down a bit so I can hear the chunk better.
 
CyanJaguar said:
I did two clips to compare the high gain tones of the mesa and 5150 to the low gain Chunk that I prefer.

playing the same riff, one sounds like thunder and one sounds like rain. Which do you prefer.



Click to expand...

From those chices...I prefer metal1.
 
Zed10R said:
From those chices...I prefer metal1.
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Really? That type of tone has its uses, but I prefer a lot more definition in the low end and so I tend to not use that tone.

I even think that metal2 had too much gain for the kind of chunk I am going for
 
Of those two clips, I preferred 1 but I think it still had far too much in the low end.

If you're interested in listening at all, here are a couple of clips from songs I recorded for friends. Nothing elaborate, just quick demos that were practice for both the bands and me. I'll try to recall the signal chains as best I can.

"Force Of Darkness" - Tyrant
Old mid-line (pre PS3T but similar, sans Floyd Rose trem) Jackson V, stock pickups > Metal Zone (I didn't want him to use it but that's not my decision to make) > JCM 800 50w > JCM 900 1960A slant 4x12 > Sennheiser e609 Silver > Fender live board pre (band's, not mine) > Echo Layla

untitled song #1 - Miscarry
BC Rich NJ Series Warlock w/ EMG 81 in the bridge and the neck pickup gutted (just like Max, sans the Discharge sticker and with all the strings) > Peavey 5150 with Boss 10 band EQ pedal in the effects loop > 5150 slant 4x12 > Audio Technica AT4033 > Mackie VLZ Pro > Echo Layla

They're both just quick demos and not of the greatest quality (and mp3, which doesn't help) but hey, maybe you'll like something. If you do, I can try to dig up the original tracks if you're interested.
 
Adam P said:
Of those two clips, I preferred 1 but I think it still had far too much in the low end.

If you're interested in listening at all, here are a couple of clips from songs I recorded for friends. Nothing elaborate, just quick demos that were practice for both the bands and me. I'll try to recall the signal chains as best I can.

"Force Of Darkness" - Tyrant
Old mid-line (pre PS3T but similar, sans Floyd Rose trem) Jackson V, stock pickups > Metal Zone (I didn't want him to use it but that's not my decision to make) > JCM 800 50w > JCM 900 1960A slant 4x12 > Sennheiser e609 Silver > Fender live board pre (band's, not mine) > Echo Layla

untitled song #1 - Miscarry
BC Rich NJ Series Warlock w/ EMG 81 in the bridge and the neck pickup gutted (just like Max, sans the Discharge sticker and with all the strings) > Peavey 5150 with Boss 10 band EQ pedal in the effects loop > 5150 slant 4x12 > Audio Technica AT4033 > Mackie VLZ Pro > Echo Layla

They're both just quick demos and not of the greatest quality (and mp3, which doesn't help) but hey, maybe you'll like something. If you do, I can try to dig up the original tracks if you're interested.
Click to expand...

hey not bad at all. I like the 800 clip. Very marshallish tone but still HEAVY.

I am beginning to think I am the only one who prefers the less gainy clip 2. Anyhow that how its going to be. Its more hollow tone sounds more commanding to me.
 
Adam P said:
I would avoid the Mesa, unless you can find a way to get a really unique sound from it.
Click to expand...


We're talking about very versitile amps that could satisfy many different flavours. It's the shallow minded bandwagon players that give them a bad name. The trendy players that play them because thier favourite band plays them in thier videos don't dig very deep to carve thier own, if you know what I mean. You could also step away from the stock tubes and give it your own shape as well.

I don't even have a Mesa, I've got a Peavey XXX. I've had to retube it to taste with some RCA quality power tubes, but I get compliments like, "that's the only Peavey I've even liked!" There's still things I'm a little unsure of with this XXX but it's been a good solid workhorse for me. I play very very loud and I'm very hard on the power section.

I'm starting to look past of my spite for Mesa's due to the chessy image and starting to think of what a Road King could do in the right hands.

A good % of players don't even realize the importance of buying power tubes in matched pairs or quads or consider the plate voltage rating. Until everyone's on the same page, I wouldn't ask someone on a message board what head to buy.
 
bileshake said:
We're talking about very versitile amps that could satisfy many different flavours. It's the shallow minded bandwagon players that give them a bad name. The trendy players that play them because thier favourite band plays them in thier videos don't dig very deep to carve thier own, if you know what I mean. You could also step away from the stock tubes and give it your own shape as well.
Click to expand...

I totally agree, which is why I added the part of "getting a unique tone from it". Also, I should have specified beforehand that I was referring to the Dual/Triple Rec crowd, and not other Mesa amps. I just personally see "Mesa Rectifier" as being synonymous with that modern high-gain sound that was probably pretty good sounding before every generic dime-a-dozen metalcore band started using it. My last band actually had a kid try out to play second guitar who brought along his Dual Rec, and while we were just shooting the breeze he said to us "this is the amp to get if you want to sound like all the big-time hardcore bands" (we were nothing like hardcore...more of a sludgy ISIS type band). That statement just sort of summed up for me the mindset of how the typical metal/hardcore/somewhere in between crowd approaches the Mesa Recs: not with the "I can get my own great signature tone out of this" but "hey, this will make me sound just like Shadows Fall/As I Lay Dying/Hatebreed/boring band". So, like I said, if you're going to get a Rectifier and not just fall into the "default metalcore" tone, then by all means go for it. I won't argue that they're great amps, because they are. But there are also equally great sounding amps out there that won't sound like everyone else by default.

Also, when I think of great metal tone, some records that come to mind are Rust In Peace and Cause Of Death, but thats just me.
 
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