May I draw on your expertise?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Supercreep
  • Start date Start date
Supercreep

Supercreep

Lizard People
Hi folks, this is my first post but I've been lurking about for a year or so just reading old posts. I have to thank everyone here for helping me get going and to (mostly) try to do things right the first time if possible- between this site and SAE I managed to put a respectable room and in it I'm using a MOTU 896HD and an A64 3200 PC with Sonar 3. I record live drums and am using this setup for that purpose:

Kick: SM57
Snare: SM57
OH x2 C1000s

I'm pretty satisfied with the drum sound altogether, maybe the C1000s is a little brittle, but toms are my problem, as getting a good mix between the HH, cymbals, and toms is sometimes difficult if I don't just smack the living shit out of each tom. Extreme dynamics is also a problem. I would like to close mike each tom individually, but the MOTU only gives me 8 inputs. The room is set up with everything hooked up and bolted in and whatnot and I don't want to crawl around behind the desk plugging/unplugging mic cables. Can I send say, 10 mics to an inexpensive mixing board and into the MOTU as a stereo pair? Would there be an appreciable noise floor? I don't want to buy something I'm not going to use.

Anyway, what do you folks think?
 
just out of curiousity, how does your kick sound recorded with the sm57?
 
You've got 10 tom mics? whew. That means your going to need 10 preamps.

Does the Motu support adat? If so a cheapish option is a berri ADA8000 with 8 pres, and adat out.

Another alternative is a Yamaha MG16/4. That's got 10 pres, & goes for around $270
 
supercreep. if you cant get a good drum sound imho with 4 drum mins. 2 ohds,kik,snare....then something is wrong. i learnt this a very long time ago from engineers who are a million miles ahead of me.
either the wrong heads are being used (thus bad sounding) or they arent tuned properly. ive been in big studios with drum kits that looked terrible but sounded magnificent. i'm not expert ion drum recording but i learnt a long time ago....the more mics....the more possibility of problems.
some of the best recordings ive heard of drums (my dad was a drummer)
was on old vinyls of drums where often 1 mic in front of the kit was used.
just my 2 cents.
 
Thanks guys for the suggestions. I want to say that the drum sounds I'm getting aren't bad. They just aren't great. I would like more definition from my toms. I'm attracted to the idea of only using 4 mics but my experience so far has been uninspiring. Perhaps the way to get around this is OH placment. Im using the C1000s in a "v" shape with the capsules almost touching, angled a bit inwards to capture as wide an image as possible while trying to keep the snare in "center". I've tried a mic on each side looking down, and I've tried the "X" pattern which to my ears sounds much like the "V" pattern. Placing the OH mics out front sounds cool but too "roomy" for me.. maybe for the right song. I've got two crashes, HH, splash, and a ride cymbal, and with the exeption of the splash the cymbals dominate. You can hear the toms, mind you, but it's not a mix i'm happy with for detailed work. God forbid I use the shoulder of the stick on the ride....it's really loud. Should I just raise the OHs away from the cymbals...? But won't the toms just be that much further away?

I'm inclined to think I could tune the drums better, but I don't think it's the panacea many believe it to be. I've used both techniques descried here and elsewhere, tried the Tama pressure-tuner thingy, and let freinds who are drummers tune away at them. I use Evans coated heads on the batter side and clear two ply on the bottom. My toms are 8", 10", 12", 14", 16" and 18". They are covered Tama birch drums. When in tune they are pleasant, rich, and have moderate sustain. They dont seem to become much louder, however, or "sit" in the mix much differently than when they are wacky out of tune. The difference to me between properly tuned drums and poorly tuned drums is more of a musical one than one of relative volume. BUT.... I stand ready to learn how wrong I am.

Should I be practicing a lighter touch on the cymbals? Should I be looking at different OH mics? Is tuning the answer? Heads?

I understand that I will need as many preamps as I have mics. Were I to use an inexpensive powered mixer (and such preamps as it has), could I send a stereo pair to the MOTU or would the noise floor be unacceptable, seeing that I'm working in a digital environment? I would rather continue as is than introduce hiss or whatnot. I appreciate the links to products that may fit the bill but I need to know if it will work well enough before I consider the purchase. Is there anyone else out there with a similar setup?

Oh, BTW - Kick sounds ok with a 57. I can EQ it to my satisfaction. I've heard much better kick sounds, though. I guess it all depends on the sound you're looking for. For my purposes, a 57 is good enough... for the time being.

Thanks again for all your help and suggestions,

-creep
 
Supercreep said:
Should I be practicing a lighter touch on the cymbals?
Click to expand...

Definitely, & maybe hit the toms louder.

I don't think you need to worry about hiss from a 2 channel mix of the toms.

You can also envelope the tom tracks & so eliminate any phase issues
 
Supercreep said:
..... I appreciate the links to products that may fit the bill but I need to know if it will work well enough before I consider the purchase. Is there anyone else out there with a similar setup? .....
Click to expand...

I use a MOTU 828mkII and the Octane. Works wonderfully.
I've even heard some stuff recorded with the ADA 8000's that sounded rather well. I'm actually half tempted to pick up an ADA 8000 myself and see how it performs for me. Just over $200 ain't bad for what it offers.
 
Thanks, guys. Anyone know anything about this device?

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MultiMix12R/

Because it's rackmountable and spare, something like this seems like it could come in handy for toms and snare using a 57 for each... so seven to a stereo pair and then run the OH mics straight to the MOTU as a separate stereo pair.

Or am I trippin?
 
Doesn't look as good as the MG16/4
Costs $25 more
Has 8 pres vs 10 on the yammie
has only 2 output buses vs 4 on the yamyah
12 ins instead of 16
only 2 band eq instead of 3
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top