Matchmaker wanted for unattached Neumann KMS-105

M

Mikegilles

New member
If you all wonder whether your advice is taken seriously, I can tell you that your guidance (reference the thread "A Truly Fine Vocal Mic") has led me to purchase the Neumann KMS-105 and it's on the way. It won't be here in time for my gig on Thursday, so I'll be using an SM-58 with an inexpensive Carvin 6 Channel 200 watt mixer and two 12" speaker cabinets.

In the future, what would you recommend for a truly fine PA system with monitors (in ear or not) to attach my Neumann to? Here's the application: one or two acoustic guitars w/vocals (The acoustics would plug in with their own pickups). One portable stage piano (Yamaha P-140). Possibly a drum machine (or an occasional small trap drum set - not miced). Perhaps the occasional horn player who drops by to sit in for a couple of songs.

Size of the venue? Varies, but small club size with tables or small hall for weddings would be possible.

Style music: Think jazz standards, acoustic folk, ballads, and great harmonies.

What system would you like to run for this group?

Regards,
Mike Gilles
 
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Wow, you're really opening a can of worms there...

What are your main priorities for your gear? Is it portability, cost, sound quality, overall SPL... the list goes on...

Now, although I never thought I'd ever say this, but if you're looking to have your own PA, then I'd suggest that you invest in a few self-powered speakers, for example, JBL Eons or Mackie SRM 350/450s. They're not the greatest boxes in the world, however they are relatively cheap, and will make sufficient noise for the applications you've listed. Also, if you ever upgrade your PA, then you can always use them as a monitor wedge.

However, the most important part for you will probably be your mixer. By my count you've got around 8 lines (you should always mic the drums, even if it's just a kick mic and an overhead). If you want to do monitoring as well, then you're going to need a couple of Aux groups.

I'd suggest something like an A&H Mixwizard 12. They've just brought out the 3rd generation of these consoles. The WZ3 12:2 has 8 mic inputs, and 6 Aux outs- more than enough to drive a couple of monitor sends.

I have a small venue here that we run similar acts in (caberet, jazz, acoustic sets) and that's all done on a A&H GL2200. I've always found the A&H mixers to be quite handy (although Midas has pretty much taken over the large format market over here).

Alternativley, you could try something like the Mackie Onyx 1620, which also has 8 mic pres. I've got a few (24) of the standalone Onyx pres; they're quite clean for a relativley cheap pre. Although, the 1620 only has 4 Aux sends.

Mackie also makes the 1642 VLZ mixer, your stock-standard compact mixer. Once again, only 4 aux sends.

Personally, I'd go for something like the A&H Mixwizard or a GL2200 (the 2200 has a lot more features than you need right now though). Sell your powered mixer- those things are the bain of my existance. If you want to keep your PA cabs, then buy yourself a decent amplifier, but, for the sake of mobility and ease of setup, I suggest you get powered speakers.

Hope that helps.
 
Sorry, I should have said that it needs to be portable and sound quality is very important. Thanks for your input!
Regards,
Mike Gilles
 
Well, in that case, I'd say go for some decent powered speakers with a good mixer.
Try and avoid the Eons if you can; they sound like a plastic box and, although designed to be carried around, they tend to start to rattle after a year or so (although you could fix that if you knew your way around a set of tools).

The Mackies aren't too much better, but they are (in my opinion) an improvement.

You could fork out for a decent unpowered/amp combo, but from the venues you listed above, you may not notice that much of an improvement. Just like recording, live music suffers greatly at the exepense of the room. There is very little cahnce that any of the rooms you are going into will be acoustically "good", so paying a few thousand extra for a really good PA won't make a few thousand dollars difference. And, if you find yourself in the rare situation where the room is acutally good acoustically, chances are there will already be an in-house PA that will make the best use of that room.

The best way to pick your speakers is to find a dealer who stocks a few different types, and organise an audition. Basic points for a small, portable PA box would be:
- Wide Dispersion (to limit the number of boxes you need)
- Low THD (to limit the amount of noise and power required)
- Good, even response
Plus, follow the golden rule- if it sounds right, it is.

Just a quick word of warning on buying speakers and amps- try to avoid comparing boxes/amps based on the listed SPL/dB figures. They are usually highly misleading. There are a few threads on this forum explaining why, so I won't go into details here.
 
I can think of two lines off the top of my head. I would look into the JBL SRX 700 series, or the cheaper Turbosound series. I am normally not a huge JBL fan, not even the Vertecs. The new SRX 700 series really sounds quite good though. You could invest in a pair of single 18" subs, and two of the SRX 712m (?) monitors for mains. You could also pick up a couple more of the SRX 712m's for monitors as well. Those little JBL monitors sound incredible for being as small as they are. Very tight sound that is easy to manage and put out a very surprising amount of low end and volume for such a small light weght box. They are designed well with NL4 plugs on either end of the speaker as well as a recessed full range/biamp switch that will not accidentally switch on you (like a lot of the EAW stuff does). For power you could go with a Crown XS1200 for the subs and a Crown XS1200 for the tops and or monitors. The subs should run about $700 ea, the monitors/tops would be about $800 ea., and the Crown amps are about $800 each. Whats nice about this rig is that it is built well, portable, sounds much better than it should at that price point, and is very expandible should you want to move to a bigger system later.

The Allen Heath Mix wiz would also be a great starter console. It gives you decent preamps and EQ's, a full 6 auxes (unlike the typical Mackie 4 aux pretending to be 6 auxes) and decent routing options. A midas would be great, but the options are limited and the price jumps considerably. Of course the quality also makes a considerable leap as well. Midas is still the benchmark for live audio for a reason:)
 
We've been using an A&H Mixwizard 16:2DX and powered EV monitors at a coffee house venue that a friend of mine owns. Surprisingly good sound. The Mizwizard has pretty good EQ and the preamps are decent. Covers most stuff quite adequately. We also use it as a front end to feed his Digi 002 that sits in the basement with an additional 8 micpres all hooked to a custom snake. Allows us to easily record bands that play on Friday and Saturday nights at his place. You can get a rough mix burned to CD by the time you break down and pack the van. We are using a variety of mics, including the usual suspects -- SM-57s and SM-58s, as well as my Audix VX-10s and a variety of instrument mics (GT-44s and AT-4053s). I'd highly recommend the A&H stuff unless you want to move up another notch to Midas (nicer pres but more money). Haven't used the Onyx line but I like A&H better than the standard Mackie VLZ Pro stuff.
 
What no one has said is that speakers, along with microphones are the most significant part of your PA when it comes to sound! A great mixer will sound like crap through crappy speakers, and good speakers will let you hear what's good and what's not.

In your situation, I would get a decent powered mixer with plenty of options (enough inputs and outputs) and the nicest (doesn't mean biggest or loudest) passive speakers you can afford.

Since you're planning having a drum machine - and the bass notes of a keyboard - go through this PA, a subwoofer would be nice. But it doesn't have to be a big honkin' 18". You're not playing hard rock.
 
Personally I would avoid powered speakers and powered mixers. Unless of course you decide to spend some real money and get in to some Meyer speakers:D

I agree that you don't really need an 18" speaker for subs, but it certainly wouldn't hurt either since I reccomended a single 18. It also keeps your rig a little more flexible when it comes to expanding in the future.
 
EAW FR159z 15" 2-Way Pro PA Speakers
SOUNDCRAFT DELTA SR 8 CHANNEL MIXER CONSOLE
Crown Reference 1 Studio Power Amplifier
a pair of JBL JRX112M 12" 2-Way Stage Monitor
 
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