Masterlink as Live Recorder?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Chip Hitchens
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Chip Hitchens

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Would it be silly of me to try to use a Masterlink as a live-to-2 recorder?

I've been recording a classical choir with a single stereo pair of mics and outboard pre's and I'm looking for something that will do a nice job recording it at 24/96 with decent A/D converters. All I really need to do is record, cut into tracks, and burn to CD (I find that at my level of talent and equipment, any further attempt at "mastering" is ultimately detractive).

Will it survive sitting in a mobile rack case? Anything I'm missing here? Is this fundamentally stupid?
 
ML 9600 Masterlink as a live recorder.

I think you should be very reluctant to get involved with the Alesis machine, or for that matter any of their HD reccorders- all are similar in having proprietary a OS.

After 40 years of recordiing on a Nagra (still own a IV-S), I decided to try the attractive ML9600. it is rugged enough, mounts in a rack, has good codec specs and all that, and sound very good... but it was a serious mistake.

I will warn you about serious problems I encountered with the ML9600.

It like all Alesis recorders uses a proprietary OS, which is not supported by Numark, who dismissed all the old ALesis staff on acquiring the brand.

Common to all computer devices, in the event of a power glitch while writing, the directory may be corrupted, meaning that when you turn it on you will not find your data. The data is there but you cannot find it or transfer it off without the directory.

This has happened to me. I was recording on a sector-limited 40 g HD, and ML OS 2.16. This disk, when formatted gave 15 hrs of time at 96/24. I recorded an all night musical event, placing 22 'new track' markers while recording continuously. At the end of the session I had 9.4 hrs remaining. I shut off power to the rack and later when I turned it on ( the recorder may have been inadvertantly placed back into record mode) I found the playlist blank and hours remaining reset to 15. I have attempted for about six weeks to get some help from Alesis (now owned by Numark, a DJ-equipmanet marque) but all they will tell me is that the data is streamed onto the disk as 'raw data', that there is no disk repair utility for the OS and they cannot help me recover my precious data. At present I am attempting to find out from them how the so-called 'raw data' is organised, so the disk can be block-copied and the recovered data decoded to a standard 96/24 stereo format. No cooperation from Numark so far. They also have refused to sell me a service manual.

I am now considering ordering a Nagra V-PP, with 96/24 option. This model is rackmountable and will be available in April. It uses BWF files written to 2.5" removable trays, optional internal backup 60 g disk and offer a FireWire adapter to allow the disk's data to be directly read into your computer.

The V-PP is about triple the price of the ML9600, but as the old saying goes, 'you get what you pay for'- my 'lost' music is worth more to me than the price of a new Nagra.
 
I used the Masterlink to live-record my band's CD. It came out great. I used M-S micing into a mixer, then out 2 channel to the masterlink. This in no way contradicts the comments in the previous post. It is only my experience. One could avoid power glitches by using an uninterruptible power supply.
Al
 
ML 9600 Masterlink as a live recorder.

Of course a bulky UPS is a good safety device for any computer run from mains power. BUT- what if the directory damage I experienced was not power glitch-related? I cannot prove the recorder was turned on, or in record. I only know that at eh end of hte night, all the racks were turned off for a few hours. When powered up later the ML9600 showed no playlist. The point I am making is that you have no recourse in the event of a directory faliure- unlike other computer-based HD systems, like ProTools or any standard DAW running under WinDos, UNIX or Mac OS for which there are disk rescue ultilites. I am a professional with over 40 years of live mixing, I have 16 albums out so far made from my sonic journals of live shows, and I do not consider this machine meets the basic criteria for professional work, in spite of the company's marketing hype. A pro MUST know that his data is safe.
 
I own two Masterlinks and frankly have not been impressed with trying to record direct. It works, but if you need to tweak anything, you still need to dump it to a CD24 and edit it in a computer DAW.

I would also be skeptical about how well it would travel. I have already had to do a lot of service on one of the MLs and lost a lot of data.

Though I really like them as a quick mixdown deck, I feel that there are some limitations to using them as the ONLY recording platform.

However, if that is what you have available, then go for it, but IMHO, buying one for direct recording is not a great way to go.

As for the suggested Nagra V-PP from Bear.Bear, they have a reputation as a great direct recorder, however, if my memory serves me correctly these things are significantly more expensive that the ML. I personally have been looking at either the Superscope CD recorder or the Marantz CDR300, but have not been able to get my hands on one to test them out.
 
Re: ML 9600 Masterlink as a live recorder.

Bear.Bear said:
Of course a bulky UPS is a good safety device for any computer run from mains power. BUT- what if the directory damage I experienced was not power glitch-related? I cannot prove the recorder was turned on, or in record. I only know that at eh end of hte night, all the racks were turned off for a few hours. When powered up later the ML9600 showed no playlist. The point I am making is that you have no recourse in the event of a directory faliure- unlike other computer-based HD systems, like ProTools or any standard DAW running under WinDos, UNIX or Mac OS for which there are disk rescue ultilites. I am a professional with over 40 years of live mixing, I have 16 albums out so far made from my sonic journals of live shows, and I do not consider this machine meets the basic criteria for professional work, in spite of the company's marketing hype. A pro MUST know that his data is safe.
Click to expand...


Ummmmm if you claim to be a PRO with over 40 YEARS of experience and 16 albums out, why no back-up plan? Why no other form of recording archival system. Aren't you s'posed to be prepared for ANY logistical probs that may arise?
I've been involved in a few situations where the MstrLink was used in live, 2-trk "Guerilla Recordings" where another capable back-up was available and there was NEVER,EVER any prob. In addition, as a long-time Alesis rec'ding gear user,I've ALWAYS maintained my connections to authorized and experienced technicians who can service my ADAT's and HD24. Why not you?
I don't mean to be derogatory in my statements, but your post has piqued my curiosity!

Peace.
 
Point well taken.

I am not 'claiming to be a pro', my credentials are well established. I do not do gueriila-recording.

I am not a studio recordist, I am a live performance mixer only. My recordings are a type of diary of my work in live concert, I call them sonic journals. The world does not end if they fail, unlike a studio situation, because the first priority is the performance and my duty is to the audience. The recording is merely a personal record of my work- it is set up to provide a perfect representation of the sound the audience hears.

It happens I am good at what I do and from time to time the musicians concerned have seen fit to release some of my live mix work as a live album- Grateful Dead, Old and in the Way, Allman Brothers- are a few of them.

I think the reason I did not buy two recorders in order to have a back up, is due to my many years using very reliable analog recorders such as the Nagra. I plan to move to a Nagra V-PP, which has an internal 60 g HD backup, in my PA.

On the other hand, no digital system will ever approach the solid, reliable and stable results produced by a machine like the Nagra IV-S running high quality tape, at 15NM. None of my old tapes on 3M stock has lost any of the original signal, and that is more than I can say for my old DATs. Who knows for sure that even optical will last as well as tape? Until 96/24 became a reality, digital was not under my consideration.

For economic reasons as well as the high cost of tape (23 min/7"reel) and the bother of having to deal with it three times/hour, I intend to persevere in finding a reliable way to record my work in the digital domain.

I have no problem with the people who support and maintain Alesis gear. It is not their fault that the machines are designed with a proprietary OS which has no way to find or recover from a directory loss. I have gone all the way to the personnel at the present manufacturer, Numark. to ask for assitance with recovering my data. It is the lack of assitance from even the highest level of support which has led me to make the posting.

Indeed, I hope you DO have backup if you use any of their recorders. It was not a matter of service or lack of it, it was simply the kind of thing all computer-based systems experience from time to time. Directory loss, though fortunately not common, is a fact of life in the digital world, but all other OS that I have experience with provide a means to recover the data which the missing drectory pointed to. Alesis do not furnish this critical facility. Thus my warning, which is intended to help people protect their data.
 
Thanks for the comments everybody. I'll say that these are the first negative reactions I've seen about the Masterlink, but they're also the first I've seen that pertain to using it as a live recorder and not a mixdown tool. It definitely gives me some more things to think about.
 
Get the Masterlink!

Greetings!

I think the Masterlink is perfect for your use. I've been using the Masterlink for a few years now in the same capacity--recording our own Master Chorale. You'll love it--it's an value that is hard to beat!

It's true, if there is a power hit while recording you'll lose access to all your data since the last time you pressed "record." I always use an UPS, and have yet to lose any data.

One of my most successful combinations is a pair of Earthworks QTC-1s through the Earthworks LAB102 preamp into the Masterlink at 88.2/24. Very nice.

I bought my most recent Masterlink at BPM Music; great service & price.

Let us know what you decide to do!

Best regards,

Bob Keiser
 
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