Mastering. Worrying about nothing?

[Steenamaroo]

Hey all.

We've been getting a bit of airplay with the new album lately.....The bit I really fear.

I thought I'd post back with a comparison of one track; Airplay VS CD.
I've set the levels so they're roughly the same.


Every time I get something on the air I do a because it always sounds so squashed and unprofessional.
I used to let it slide on the basis that you're competing with massive budgets and long time served professionals, but even against other local small budget artists, I'm not sure my mixes are standing up.

We had the last record professionally mastered and it also pumped a fair bit in the choruses, so I'm starting to think this is a fundamental mix issue.
The thing is, no one else seems to be bothered; Even the artist!

Is it just me? Is there a problem?
We're probably at a stage where this could potentially hold us back. I duno; Maybe I'm being optimistic there.

Here's the clip. You'll hear the intro chorus on air, then it's repeated from the CD.
Wav...Might take a minute to load.

Thanks in advance.

 

[JimmyS1969]

I only hear the typical compression that is added by radio. I don't find it any more annoying than radio itself. I like your original sound of the CD better, but that is the case with any professional CD when compared to a radio broadcast. Just pick a song played on the radio and record it. Buy the actual CD and compare. You going to get the same result you found here.

Great to hear you are getting airplay!

 

[K-dub]

Radio broadcasting HAMMERS compression on the signal due to technical issues unique to radio and the physics involved with broadcasting. There is NO getting around it -- for they must in order to keep tight their broadcast signal.

That being said ... there is a clear difference in the breathing dynamics of the original versus the sheen of the radio imposed compression. There is not one listener in the world that is going to catch that. Outside. Of course. You.

 

[Steenamaroo]

That's a reassuring start..Thanks very much guys!

I actually noticed a willy nelson track last week that was pumping like crazy on FM. That made me feel a little better but, at the same time, that recording was probably older than me.

 

[dobro]

And the iTunes preview sounds better than either the radio play or the clip you appended to the radio play. I would imagine the iTunes clip will affect people's perception of the sound more than radio play. No?

 

[CrowsofFritz]

I work a bit in radio. I've mostly done programming but I've done a bit of recording as well.

Every time I'm in the studio, I see the chain the audio goes through and just let out a little giggle. The compression the audio goes through is pretty hefty, man.

 

[rayc]

Yep, sounds like radio. I taped a lot of FM stuff in the 70's - it all sounds pretty woeful but we were impressed at the time.

 

[Bobbsy]

Yup. You're just hearing the typical treatment everything gets on radio, particularly in the USA.

Even at best, chances are your music will be going through two layers of compression, first a "normal" one in the studio and then a spawn of Satan type device called an Orban Optimod which does a specialist form of compression to make the RF signal from the transmitter as loud as possible.

Everything you hear on radio gets similar treatment--you just know how your own stuff SHOULD sound.

 

[Steenamaroo]

And the iTunes preview sounds better than either the radio play or the clip you appended to the radio play. I would imagine the iTunes clip will affect people's perception of the sound more than radio play. No?

Hmm. The clip I appended is straight from the CD...but thanks.
You're right with regard to sales. I'm worried about getting airplay further up the ladder though.

Cheers everyone. Definitely feel a lot better about the thing.

So out of interest...how do the big boys avoid that pumping?
You know, not that I give a shit what Robbie Williams sounds like, but he never sounds like that.

 

[Bobbsy]

Truthful answer is that Robbie (and virtually all commercial music) already has all the dynamics removed (look at the waveform sometime if you like green rectangles) which obviously minimises any pumping effect on the radio. If your dynamic range is only half a dB, there's not much room for pumping!

 

[Steenamaroo]

Aww jesus. Who's making up the rules here? lol.

I did a fair bit of research before finishing this record and the best advice I could get was to go easy at the end of the chain.
I didn't aim for commercial volume or full dynamic range. Just a nice half way house.
I'm happy with the final CD in that respect.


The idea was that broadcast compression (generally) doensn't expect to see square blocks, and seeing them is what messes the sound up.

I'm not even almost saying you're wrong Bobbsy, I expect you're right. (It ties in with my Willie Nelson thing).
It's just amazing how much of a dark art this thing is.


The majority of reliable sources seem to just say they mix a song, master a song and that's it done. Radio gets no special consideration.



I am a lot happier with the responses here; I mean, I'm not going to lose sleep, but I'd really like to feel like I'm moving forward with this.
I'll see if I can take notes. I listen to a good bit of local music on the radio.
If I find out they were actually mastered in nashville or some shit, that'll help.


I think it just pisses me off because I get to try this about twice a year. It's a slow learning curve.
If I could spend an hour in a broadcast studio monitoring off their final chain, I'm sure I'd really learn something.

I suppose I'm just worried that people at national radio will just say, "Nah, that mix isn't up to par".

 

[Bobbsy]

Despite my earlier comments, I'd agree with the "no special treatment for radio" advice. Although all too often the studio compression and the Optimod are cranked up to stupid settings, there still ARE some broadcasters that know what they're doing and don't play the "be the loudest on the band" game. For those ones it's still worth giving them a mix with room to breath.

(Stipulating that my broadcast audio experience is all television, not radio--and also in the UK where the problems tend to be less and we would also poke unfair fun at the "American sound".)

 

[Steenamaroo]

(Stipulating that my broadcast audio experience is all television, not radio--and also in the UK where the problems tend to be less and we would also poke unfair fun at the "American sound".)

Experience is the important word in that sentence. Although I am from the UK.
Our airplay is predominantly BBC.

I just looked up a local artist who was played immediately after us. She gigs local venues, same as Pete etc.
Her record sounded great, but a quick google told me that her producer/engineer "is fresh back from his latest Nashville trip".

Maybe I'm just comparing above my weight? I'm not fresh back from anywhere!

 

[Bobbsy]

Hmmm...all this time and I hadn't noticed you were from the UK!

BBC is not usually too bad on the compression stakes though it varies from network to network. I've heard some not so nice things about their processing on some the the newer digital channels. This makes sense because the MPEG system used is very unforgiving of high levels and the bit rates are very poor due to analogue bandwidth restrictions.

Which network is your airplay on? My contacts are about 7 years out of date but I still may be able to find somebody to ask some searching questions of.

In the meantime, pumping when on air still sounds to me like your mixes have a greater dynamic range than the system is set up for. It could be as simple as splitting the difference between "hopelessly compressed" and "actually sounds like music.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Which network is your airplay on? My contacts are about 7 years out of date but I still may be able to find somebody to ask some searching questions of.

Wow, thanks for the offer there.
We haven't made it outside of NI yet, so it's regional BBC radio Ulster/Foyle.

In the meantime, pumping when on air still sounds to me like your mixes have a greater dynamic range than the system is set up for. It could be as simple as splitting the difference between "hopelessly compressed" and "actually sounds like music.

Maybe you're right. I'd love to know.
I put out a mix about 5 years ago that got airplay and sounded AWFUL. Modesty aside and all the rest, it really really pumped beyond recognition.
I've been living in fear ever since.

 

[dobro]

Hmm. The clip I appended is straight from the CD...but thanks.

Yeah, I was wondering whether the clip you added to the radio squash was the same as the one on the iTunes site. I can hear a difference - so is it just level, or is it the way iTunes codes their mp3s?

 

[Steenamaroo]

Could be a bit of both.
I had to down the level a bit to match the radio recording.
I don't know for sure, but I guess iTunes previous are altered in some way for file size.

 

[TripleM]

I'm like everybody else. The radio squeezed a bit of life and breath out of the original mix. But nothing horrible. It still sounded good. Probably nobody outside of us would notice.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Cheers, Trip.
Feelin' fine.

 

[Vinnydude]

Hey man, I've also had a few of my tracks played on the BBC too. they were played on BBC Lancashire on the introducing show, and I must say, what ever they do to their signal on that station is horrendous!

I can't offer any advice other than what's already been said, just thought I'd let you know that I'd noticed it too!