Mastering wiring...

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bmcclure

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OK, in order to master this track, which I have on my copmuter, I have the followin ghardware:

Behringer 31-band EQ
Behginger Autocomp Pro Compressor/Limiter
Behringer 1604 mixer
How I've got my mixer set up right now is this...

All instruments are in the first 7 channels, which all go to the ALT 3/4 output. That output goes through the compressor and into my Extigy sound card. Then the OUT of my sound card goes to channel 8 of th emixer which goes into my monitors.

I just got my EQ today and put it as AUX SENDS 1 and 2 and then both of them back into L and R of AUX RETURN 1.

My question: How can I put the song from my computer through the compressor and equalizer and then output that back to my computer? This is driving me nuts! I'd rather not use software for this, I want it to go out and come back in if possible... Please let me know... THanks again guys!
 
Two things come immediately to mind -

1) Always observe minimum signal path

2) With that list of gear, I'd recommend you DO stay within the computer and do any post-production processing in-the-box.... plug-ins are going to easily outperform the external gear you've listed.
 
If you just got the EQ, hopefully you'll be able to return it and get something useful instead.

Something tells me the rest of your gear, your ear, and your listening environment aren't fit for mastering.

If you really feel it's worth mastering, take it to a real mastering engineer.

You don't try to build a house with just a hammer. You call a contractor.

Sorry for sounding so brash. I'm only trying to help.
 
OK, thank you...

Maybe I will return the EQ.

Something tells me you're not my ear doctor Doink, but thanks for the suggestions. :D I'm not building a home, I already have one. I'm making my music. Contrary to some beliefs, there IS a difference. I'd really like to take it to a mastering engineer, but that would require more money than I've got at this point. In the future I would like to be a mastering engineer, for at least my own stuff, and probably others' stuff as well. What better way to start than with my music?

What program and plugin would you recommend for doing this sort of thing, Blue Bear Sound? I've got Cubase, Cakewalk, and Audition already on it.

What would you recommend I better spend my money on, Doink (as far as hardware or software), and please don't say professional mastering, I'm too stubborn and naive to take your advice on that at this point and it's just not going to happen.

About the EQ, I didn't buy it just to master songs, I bought it so I could control the EQ of the instruments I'm recording. Does that EQ suck, or why do you recommend I return it?

Back to the mastering. While I won't take all of your advice because some of your presentations of it are demeaning and just unhelpful, I do like the solid advice I finally got on this board by John Scrip... Short, sweet, to the point... I went to your website and liked what I saw about Massive Mastering. Contrary to what I just said, your rates weren't really outrageous or anything. I have a question though. Don't most mastering engineers prefer to work in the studio with the musicians while mastering in order to know how they want it to sound? How do you do it over the Internet? And, what if it's not just how I had wanted it when it's all done, do you charge more to redo/change it? I really want this song I've got now mastered, and it would be a good test as to how I like the mastering engineer I give th eproject to, but I don't have that amount of money to spend on mastering right now, so I might have to wait until I have all the songs on the album done and just pay for the whole CD at once. Either way, I'll probably be contacting you sometime if that's cool ;-)

Thanks, and I do appreciate the other suggestions as well... once again you guys have made me look like an idiot ;-)
 
It sounds like your confusing a lot of steps. There is tracking, mixing and mastering. You mention having instruments go through the mixer. Are you tracking an entire band at once and mixing down live? What exactly are you doing?
 
I think you're confusing my posts ;-)

I'm recording and mixing, and would like to begin mastering. I use a mixer for all steps thus far.

I make my own music mostly, so I'm not recording anybody else's stuff (aside from the rap project I'm working on with a friend, if you call that music). I've got guitars, my MC-505, my mics, and other instruments going through the mixer. That's what I call r-e-c-o-r-d-i-n-g, when I play those and record them to my computer. Then I piece them together in my song, tweaking individual volumes and EQs and making it all sound like it goes together. That's the step I affectionately call m-i-x-i-n-g. Then I usually mix the track down, tweak it a bit more, and then I would have begun the phase I call m-a-s-t-e-r-i-n-g, but where I am stuck as far as methods so far. :D

I'm just messing with you, I know what the stages are and I apologize if I confused you by ediscussing more than just mastering in this post about mastering, I should have specified.

I record each of my instruments separate, since aside from guitar I record everythign myself. We also record several guitar tracks (20 on the current song) so it would be impossible to record live.

It doesn't matter anyway, I've decided I'm just going to finish all the songs on my album and probably by then have enough money saved to get them mastered.

Based on my equipment lists from my other posts, what would you guys say I could make better use of if I return this $150 EQ? Thanks!
 
I am with Blue Bear on this one. Do your mastering inside the computer. You do not have any gear listed which is going to keep up with what software can do, and you lose a generation every time you transfer back to the analog realm. The generation lose can sometimes be worth it if you have a great piece of analog gear, but you don't. Get some good plugin's, and do it that way.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
bmcclure said:
Then the OUT of my sound card goes to channel 8 of th emixer which goes into my monitors.
Click to expand...
Why not just go from the sound card directly to the monitors?
 
I'm not sure you'd want to use an auxiliary send/return for an equalizer under most circumstances. Usually eq's and compressors are part of the direct signal path since the intent is to process the entire signal, as opposed to aux send/return which just mixes some effect back into the original signal. In other words you would use a channel insert with a special insert cable (one TRS--stereo type plug) a splitting into two mono plugs, one sending to the eq and the other returning the signal. This will process the full signal in your signal path. I hope this helps, and I wish you good luck!
 
Thank you everyone. I will attempt to return my EQ and get something "more useful". Any suggestions? I am learning a lot but I can always use suggestions from people who've known about this stuff for longer than me.

I liked BLue Bear's suggestion as well, can anyone name soem plugins an dwhat programs they are for that I should be looking for?

My sound card doesn't go directly to my monitors because there are circumstances where I want to go directly from instrument to monitor, then I can just push a button to chagne the instrument from channel 3/4 to the main output and it will go out the monitors. It also allows em to leave the computer volume at 75% and just use teh mixer slider to control monitor volume. Not to mention XLR outputs. Isn't this the right way to do it, or do you have a better suggestion?
As far as aux sends, that's a good point that didn't even cross my mind. I'll put it in the same chain with my compressor. The EQ would coem directly after the compressor, right? Thanks!

Ben
 
Yeah, funny one. I'm glad we have some washed-up comedians on this forum too. :-)

No, I think I'll stick to digital this time, but thanks for the hot tip... Little late though, I've decided to get the album mastered once I'm done. No more need to make fun of me. I plan to go this entire venture alone without anyone's help, just thought I could get a relatively simple answer to my amatuer question but it seems there are only a few real people interested in helping on this forum. Well you're the ones I will look to when I need mastering. Thanks!
 
I'm going to try to be helpful here (at least a little).

Here's my setup.

Everything goes into a Behringer Mixer (I know.. it's getting upgraded this summer). The inserts go into the inputs of an M-Audio Delta 1010LT.

Out 1/2 come into a stero channel on the mixer for distribution to the monitors and headophone amps. Everything is in the box. I don't attempt anything that I would call real mastering. If a band isn't going to spend the money on a proper mastering engineer I'll through some compression on the 2 bus and bring it up some. Otherwise I think mastering takes a special kind of person with a lot of time and experience.

I haven't bought any outboard gear. The plugins are better than what I could afford at the moment anyway so I stick with those.
 
I'm not being funny.

Even when I run a radio station signal from an 1/8 inch output of a boombox into a reel to reel recorder it affects the sonics in a stirring and profound way.

Imagine your main outs of your board to an anaolog 1/2 reel to reel tape recorder running at 15 ips, then send the reels to the mastering house when your done.

The real mastering house will be set up and ready to receive analog signal into its signal path of EQ's and such before being converted to digital.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/0/jerrylockamyrecordinglogmusic.htm
 
Yup, he's not being funny - It's called "layback" mastering and it's a wonderful thing. I don't do it often (I charge a fortune for it so I don't have to :D ), but it's a great way to warm things up a bit.

JS -
 
Oh, I apologize then, I never thought of it that way.

I have finished my first song, and it definately needs mastering, but I think it would be the best idea cost-wise to finish the album before getting any of it mastered, right? Perhaps I could get an idea of what it would be like by getting a consultation or a sample of my song mastered? Thanks, and I apologize for the comments, your messages are much appreciated.
 
I have to disagree with the tape suggestion. Unless you are using a properly aligned deck with high quality components you are most likely doing more damage than good. There are much better ways now of warming up digital now than bouncing to tape and incuring the cost of additional noise and another generation of A/D conversion. They include the Crane Song Phoenix and HEDD processors. By using these you can control the amount of "warmth" to a much greater degree than just depending on what tape can supply, without an increase in noise or loss from re-converting. There are other units and plugins as well, but these are the 2 that I'm most familiar with.
 
Sorry for the amatuerness of this post, but can't you just run somethign you want to add 'warmth' to through a vacuum tube?
 
I wouldnt mind playing with a good plugin to add warmth.

Since my ears are getting better as well as I have been doing some post processing for different genres that I personally do not listen to, I am really starting to hear the difference in different recording mediums for final mixdowns.

ie, I got a track the other day from a band that recording using mostly a digital chain after hitting the A/Ds and I thought to myself how much better it would sound if I could add some warmth using a good processor or possibly a really good plugin ( If one exsists)

Think I will do a little research.


Malcolm
 
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