Mastering volume

  • Thread starter Thread starter Adrenaline
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Adrenaline

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Sorry to ask this question again, but I think it was overlooked in a different thread.

Does anyone have any techniques for getting a mix volume up without any clipping issues? The only mastering I have done is just exporting the left and right channels, bringing them together, eq'ing a little, and exporting to a single stereo track. My final track is very quiet, but it peaks at 0 db.

I am using cubase SX, and have an anolog studio mixer.
 
Overall mix volume isn't really something you just pump up at the mastering stage.

You have to have something to work with from the results of the mixing stage, and even more important the tracking stage.

To get the maximum "percieved" loudness, you must capture the source in a way where it sounds loud, but doesn't neccessarily peak to 0db. This means finding the "Sweet Spot" with mic and room placement.

All you can really do is limit and compress until you start to notice it as an effect, then back of a little. If it's still not loud enough, trust that if the listener wants to hear it, they will turn it up.
 
I think what he is talking is more along the lines of after he mixed it right. the way to bring the levels up some is to just turn up the master fader some.
 
RD423 said:
I think what he is talking is more along the lines of after he mixed it right. the way to bring the levels up some is to just turn up the master fader some.
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He has already turned it up to the max (0db), You can only do so much with eq/compression/limiting before you squash it into obliteration.

My point was that to get "commercial" levels, you have to plan for it in tracking and mixing, not just at the mastering stage. There is only so much you can do before ruining the song all together.
 
I had a client this weekend who asked for (get this)... a dynamic album!

It's rare, but it does happen. We've got most of the album sitting around -13db RMS with peaks at -0.3db ... it's beautiful.
 
ryanlikestorock said:
We've got most of the album sitting around -13db RMS with peaks at -0.3db ... it's beautiful.
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How would your typical album compare to that?
 
JKestle said:
How would your typical album compare to that?
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I'm listening to a cut off of Melissa Auf der Maur (2004) that is -7.5dBFS max rms and peaks at -0.1dBFS. Pretty loud, is generally balanced although definition is lost in the bass and treble...

Peaceful Easy Feelin (circa 1972) comes in about -16dBFS max rms and -3dBFS peak.

Just watching the DEQ2496 to give me an idea of how loud stuff is...
 
good stuff...

:D

peaks at -3.....those were the days...too bad I missed them.
 
JKestle said:
:D

peaks at -3.....those were the days...too bad I missed them.
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I was listenin to the Beatles White Album right before that...even more dynamic range and clarity - it was mastered for vinyl though so the full use of the audio spectrum wasn't allowed...can you imagine if one of us could go back in time and deliver a 24bit/96KHz setup to George Martin? I wonder what would be different...Volunteers ? :D
 
I think even really "loud" genres sound best at about -11 or -10db RMS. I'm not a hardcore purist of dynamic range because I do like music to kick me in the face when I'm listening to it in headphones.
 
To answer the initial question, I've found that often a slight EQ adjustment in the right place can bring your perceived volume up without resorting to limiting. Depending on the source, this may or may not be true... but, the more even the EQ spectrum, the easier it's going to be to get the volumes you're looking for. This process starts as far back as instrument selection, but EQ in the mastering stage can help for sure.

I'm always confused when people talk about brick wall limiters as being mastering tools. I find that my masters sound better without a limiter, but I use one to catch the "overs" somewhere a little under 0db. It contributes nothing positive to the sound of the master, for sure.
 
The right limiter can really add a special quality to a mix sometimes. Especially a good hardware limiter or high end comp.
 
Is there any good software out there to monitor the dynamic levels (in db) of a mix in realtime while listening to it?
 
I use a limiter solely to get rid of the peaks that are larger than the average of peaks. These in my case are caused by the kik and the snare. I have yet to hear a loss in sound quality from limiting in this way. I would love to try out hardware limiters. They can add saturation like tape compresion cant they to produce a thicker sound?
 
ryanlikestorock said:
To answer the initial question, I've found that often a slight EQ adjustment in the right place can bring your perceived volume up without resorting to limiting. Depending on the source, this may or may not be true... but, the more even the EQ spectrum, the easier it's going to be to get the volumes you're looking for. This process starts as far back as instrument selection, but EQ in the mastering stage can help for sure.
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In fact that is the premise of Har-Bal, adjusting your loudness via EQ. They provide a visual spectrum to assist you while you are learning how. It's kind of like "EQ for Dummies (but a pretty decent transparent mastering EQ for the rest of us)".

http://www.har-bal.com/

Forget any of the hype you might see about replacing the mastering engineer (they may have removed that by now) the marketing guys got a little over-ambitious, hehe...

ryan - isn't it time you changed your name to ryanlikestomaster? :D
 
Thanks Kylen, unfortunately I'm on my computer at work, an IBM, and I use a Mac G5 at home for all my music production (no internet yet). I don't think I can use VST plugs without a conversion program with DP4. I might have to check out Spectra Foo, a spectral analyzer, because I know its Digital Perfomer compatible and it looks like it offers a multitude of waveform analyzation features. Definitetly useful stuff.
 
Adrenaline said:
The only mastering I have done is just exporting the left and right channels, bringing them together, eq'ing a little, and exporting to a single stereo track. My final track is very quiet, but it peaks at 0 db.
Click to expand...

Mastering also involves overall compression of the mix.

If you have compressed in the mix stage....then you should take this into consideration when compressing when mastering.

What I mean is if you compress something with a ratio of 10:1 when mixing...and then compress again in mastering with a ratio of 10:1, total compression does not equal 20:1.....it is 100:1....or squashed to shit.

Compression is multiplicative, and one should have a final ratio in mind, i.e. final ratio of 9:1.

Compress 3:1 in mixing, and 3:1 again in mastering to achieve the 9:1 goal.

If your unfarmiliar with compression, here an article that might help...it deals with compression in mixing...but it relates to mastering as well.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun99/articles/mixcomp.htm
 
kylen said:
ryan - isn't it time you changed your name to ryanlikestomaster? :D
Click to expand...

Haha. I should have changed my name long ago. I'm not much of a rocker anymore. I cut my hair, sold my bass... it's all gone.
 
JKestle said:
Compression is multiplicative, and one should have a final ratio in mind, i.e. final ratio of 9:1.

Compress 3:1 in mixing, and 3:1 again in mastering to achieve the 9:1 goal.
Click to expand...

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think this whole idea is going about everything backwards. The ratio is a tool or aid... not an end. It's like a carpenter saying "Start with the goal of using 10 different hammers".

I understand about the exponential equations (or multiplicative, as referred), and I agree that too much compression is a bad thing... but, the rest of this idea doesn't sit well with me.

Besides, there's a lot of information missing from this idea anyway. 9:1 doesn't sound like anything without a threshold.
 
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