"mastering" tips

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jason Molinari
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mastering help

Engineer...

1. i'm surely not tech enough to know how to get a song on the internet. additionally, what ego i do have is far too delicate to sustain the opinions.

2. and it's a tub-fest; vocal and bass are not agreeing with eachother. so i'm pretty much scrappin' it and starting over.

3. i never asked to be taught "mastering" over the internet in a week, month or year. I just asked for a finger pointed to a general location so i could start to understand the method and what to look and listen for. no different than asking how to record handclaps or mic a cabinet or whatever situation that someone has run out of ideas or is clueless of what can be done.

Thanks,
Jason
 
My $.02 worth: you're asking the wrong question. You're not at the point of "mastering," but "mixing."

Start where we all do, with the tracks all playing at the same level, and push the faders up and down and the pan pots left and right until you have what sounds like the right level on everything.

Then begin attending to the flaws you hear that you know how to fix. For example, listen to the bass part and fool with the EQ until it loses its tubbiness. Do the same for each of the other tracks. In the process you will be learning how the EQs affect the sound. Of course, you will still have a lot to learn, but you will soon be able to define your own starting points.

Then listen to the tracks together (they are now becoming a mix) and tweak any tracks that are masking other parts.

After that's done, listen for uneven levels in the vocals or bass parts (typically troublesome elements) and try compression to smooth them out.

After some experimentation you'll start hearing things differently: your sound perception will improve, and you'll feel more secure about what you are changing and why.

That's how we all get there. You don't have to use every wrench in the tool box, just the ones you need for the task at hand.
 
Jason Molinari said:
no different than asking how to record handclaps or mic a cabinet or whatever situation that someone has run out of ideas or is clueless of what can be done.
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Yes - mastering is VERY different than telling someone how to record handclaps....... mastrering has no defined process - period.

And I agree with lpdeluxe, now it sounds like you're talking about MIXING, not mastering.

For mixing there are more guidelines: Mixing 101
 
Yup. Much easier to remove the tubbiness in the mix.

Try plugin in an EQ with a very narrow Q so that it peaks very sharply. Then drag it around the spectrum until your bass sound REALLY EF'ing tubby- then CUT that frequency until the tubbiness goes away. Maybe widen the Q a little to catch more freqs- see how it sounds.

Its a common use of EQ- cutting out frequencies on one track that are competing with something more important on another track. Its among the meat-n-potatoes of mixing (and tracking, if you know what you're doing.)

Take care,
Chris
 
The responses you've recieved have been on the terse side, but I think they're right (as if my opinion mattered next to the pro's ;) )

I'm open to corrections from the aforementioned pro's, but to paraphrase and agree with lpdeluxe:

If you hear that something could use improvement (other than overall loudness), its a mix problem. Mastering has a few main purposes; To have another set of ears to check for and correct problems; to achieve desired loudness, which is a touchy subject; to ensure the mix translates to various systems - if you're checking your mix in the car, boombox, etc., you're already doing the best you can without hiring a mastering studio.

Check out the websites of the pro masterers who have already posted on this thread, and this link - there are no "presets" out there, but you might find some ideas as to what equipment is used for what purpose in mastering:

http://www.digitalsunspot.com/faq.htm
 
I think what he's asking is not for help on a particular song, but what mastering is in general, and what tools are used. To say there is no basic starting point is beyond absurd.

What are the basics of mastering, what effect do certain tools have, and what the standard use of each tool is. Tricks of the trade that aren't necessarily common knowledge, but none-the-less get passed on from one man to another.

He's not saying my car is broken, sight unseen tell me how to fix it, he's saying generally speaking what are some of the things you can do to fix a car. He may not need to clean out the carburetor now, but if he ever did it'd be nice to know how.

Sure he could read a book about it, but books can't respond to unanswered questions, or explain it in a different way if something isn't understood. That's why he asked other human beings.

What are the essentials of mastering, and how do you employ them?
 
I love it when people don't pay attention or don't actually read previous posts before they comment.............. :rolleyes:

Look skippy, the tools are the same - EQ, compressors, limiters, high-end monitors -- the difference is in the calibre of the tools (a Weiss EQ runs upwards of $6K for a 2-ch unit) and the listening environment, and the CRITICAL LISTENING/ANALYSIS the at occurs before ANYTHING else.... not to mention the objective ears of the mastering engineer.

And there are plenty of books on mastering - but none are "how-to" - simply because it isn't possible. Mastering is an in-depth process requiring analysis and knowledge of a wide variety of tools, techniques and options that simply aren't going to be answered in a single post... as we've already mentioned, the most important step (and the FIRST step in the process) is LISTENING.

The track will tell you what is needed (if anything) in terms of enhancement or change. What you do next depends entirely on what the song tells you is needed. Sometimes it may be minor EQ changes - other times, bringing out the punch or conversely killing dynamics with compression and/or limiting. The other steps are the sequence of songs - putting them in the most favorable order for the intent of the project (and audience) and adjusting fade-in/outs appropriately.

Note that self-mastering is doomed to be less-than-adequate simply on the point of the lack of objective ears alone...
 
HarmlessMarvin said:
I think what he's asking is not for help on a particular song, but what mastering is in general, and what tools are used. To say there is no basic starting point is beyond absurd.
Click to expand...
There is no basic starting point. I'm sorry if that *sounds* absurd, but it IS the absolute, honest truth.

Assuming we're talking about processing anyway - Otherwise, the "basic starting point" is pressing "PLAY" and listening.

Some engineers (myself included) tend to fall into "norms" on occasion, but they'd hardly be considered "starting points" by anyone. For example - Most of the time, I'm going to use my Lavry converters on the way in after the analog chain. Not the Apogees. Not the Quantums. Not the Tascam, Alesis, Echo, etc. You can almost bank on it being the Lavry.

Why?

Because I find that generally, no matter what the material, I'm going to like how the Lavry A-D unit handles it on the way in.

Also note that I didn't say that I use the Lavry D-A on the way out every time... Although it definitely falls into a "favorite" status, it's not assumed.

So if he said "I'm wondering what A-D you guys use most - I have Alesis, Apogee, DBX, Echo, Lavry and Tascam units to choose from..." then I would likely say that I prefer the Lavry. Still, that doesn't make it the only choice - It just makes it my particular choice.

And it's the same thing through the entire chain. I have no idea at all what I'm going to run a project through until I hear it. None whatsoever, period. Once I hear it, I mentally assemble a chain that I think will take it to where it wants to go. I turn it off, set up that chain, turn it back on and tweak it from there.

THAT is the basic starting point.
 
I don't know, John - we can repeat it endlessly but it's not going to sink in....

I think it's like Mixerman's point on mixing -- you can't really teach it, they either get it or they won't ever.... :cool:
 
The Engineer said:
Jason, if you don't mind, you could post the song. That would enable us to help you more with your problem.
Click to expand...

I think theres a good point raised here. I'm no expert, but as massive said its not a great idea to master your own mixes, as its more difficult to be objective about them. So how about for a starting point, once you have mixed a tune, get a bunch of other people who arent afraid to give a bit of honest criticism to listen to it and give you their opinion, take notes if needs be, then go in and see what you need to do, perhaps its something that can be fixed in mixing. I'm always getting my housemates opinion on stuff while I'm mixing. I might not always agree but who says I have to. Theres no harm in getting someone elses opinion. Who knows, it could change a dodgy mix into the perfect mix...
 
Jason Molinari said:
Engineer...

1. i'm surely not tech enough to know how to get a song on the internet. additionally, what ego i do have is far too delicate to sustain the opinions.

2. and it's a tub-fest; vocal and bass are not agreeing with eachother. so i'm pretty much scrappin' it and starting over.

3. i never asked to be taught "mastering" over the internet in a week, month or year. I just asked for a finger pointed to a general location so i could start to understand the method and what to look and listen for. no different than asking how to record handclaps or mic a cabinet or whatever situation that someone has run out of ideas or is clueless of what can be done.

Thanks,
Jason
Click to expand...


I smell smoke.

You can post your song at the site linked in my signature. Maybe then this conversation can move forward.
 
Jason Molinari said:
I just asked for a finger pointed to a general location so i could start to understand the method and what to look and listen for. no different than asking how to record handclaps or mic a cabinet or whatever situation that someone has run out of ideas or is clueless of what can be done.
Click to expand...
Missed this one also -

See, those are specific things that people could make dozens of suggestions on. From mic and preamp selection to room dimensions and more. But there is a specific "end game" in mind, which is to effectively capture a performance. There ARE starting points in both of those cases - although if you ask 5 different people, you'll probably get 5 different opinions. Still, there are specific approaches that can be suggested. Where to start when mastering on the other hand... As mentioned before, the only starting point is listening. With some mixes, that's all there is to be done. With others, there's a little polishing. With some others, it's complete body work. The processing is totally unique to the individual mix. If there was a common starting point to processing, well... I don't know. I can't even imagine it, so I have no ending to that thought. There just isn't one.
 
Q for Blue Bear and others from Pro League

Hello!
I suppose you (Blue Bear) do this stuff professionally.
Do you really use Cool Edit (Adobe Audition)?
If answer is YES - in which grade and what kind music (bands).

If answer is NO- which software do you use?
Where is Adobe Audition in scale 1-10 if we suppose that the best software is 10? (best in your opinion)

I know this has nothing to do with this thread but this thread is started with a wrong question anyway.

A friend of mine has bought CUBASE EX and when he told me the price he paid I started to wonder if my software is too cheap?
Anyway, I do not need better software. I’m just wondering…
 
Here we go again...

Adobe Audition is a perfectly capable suite of recording software. What it lacks can easily be made up via plug-ins, etc. It ain't the arrow, it's the Indian...


...and the whole subtext of this discussion is that "the computer will do nothing **FOR** you." The software allows you to do many important things to audio recordings, but you have to bring some chops to the table. A lot of people seem to think that "computer recording" means "automated." Thank G that's not true! It's a tool, and it's up to you to figure out how to best use it. When your car's transmission goes out, do you just open up the tool box next to it in the driveway and hope for the best?

Another issue: what you think sounds good (even great) may not be what your client is looking for. You have to know not only how to make it sound the way you like it, but how to make it sound the way other people may like it.

This doesn't come from presets, or "starting points." The fact that everyone owns a computer somehow makes them think that recording is easy. It ain't. It's hard, but it responds to experimentation and experience. Otherwise, what would be the point of doing it?

If all you want is a box with a button to push, get one of those Korg or Yamaha or whatever 8+ track hard disc recorders. All the thinking has already been done for you, and you'll probably never know the difference. Understand that you'll still be able to screw up your recording, but the chances are pretty good, that if you resist the learning process we have been describing, you'll likely not be able to tell that there's anything wrong. It's all about your ears, and the years-long process of learning to make them happy.
 
gasal69 said:
Hello!
I suppose you (Blue Bear) do this stuff professionally.
Do you really use Cool Edit (Adobe Audition)?
If answer is YES - in which grade and what kind music (bands).

If answer is NO- which software do you use?
Where is Adobe Audition in scale 1-10 if we suppose that the best software is 10? (best in your opinion)

I know this has nothing to do with this thread but this thread is started with a wrong question anyway.

A friend of mine has bought CUBASE EX and when he told me the price he paid I started to wonder if my software is too cheap?
Anyway, I do not need better software. I’m just wondering…
Click to expand...
I don't use the DAW for recording, only editing.... and I generally use Cubase SX, Sound Forge, and CD Architect.... If Cool Edit works for you, then there's really no reason to change!
 
lpdeluxe said:
It's all about your ears, and the years-long process of learning to make them happy.
Click to expand...
A valiant effort, but I'm afraid they're long beyond being able to understand that, since that's the message we've been giving them all along in this thread and they have yet to grasp it!
 
First: thanks for understanding HarmlessMarvin. I was beginning to think I was insane for asking such a question.

Bruce/Blue Bear: funny how you berate Marvin for not reading, yet that's exactly what you've done. if you even took a second to try to understand (in my FIRST POST!!!) what i was asking insted of winding yourself telling me how elite your discipline is and how only so many are qualified. you may have actually noticed and realized that I: 1) am a simple hobby home-recordist 2) and only needed some guidance 3) used a lot of quotation marks. . Additionally, you failed to understand that I have LISTENED, LISTENED, LISTENED. something was lacking between the 'fancy' computer (good) and layperson commercial gear (lacking) and came to an impasse with my ability--something you insist on not understanding. Get it now Skippy?

Probably shouldn't've called it mastering. sorry. My apologies to all mastering engineers for throwing words around willy-nilly and sullying your hollier than thou club where I obviously don't know the secret handshake.

LP: No, there is no subtext to this conversation where i think the box will do everything for me. it's just what i can afford. I don't think recording is easy. But it's the most fun pain in the ass thing i've ever done.

Thanks,
Jason
 
There's no secret handshake

What there is, is people having fun with (and occasionally making money with) recording. We don't like our "art" being reduced to "what button do you push..." because, if it were that easy, there would be no point to it.

There are a million or more ways to make a recording sound bad, and only one way to make YOUR recording sound good. And that involves a lot of time, effort, and frequently money, spent. I am right now contemplating buying a ribbon mic and a new preamp to make one of my clients happy...but you understand that, if I make him happy, I make ME happy. It's an evolving and never-ending mystery, to make that intractable vocal become the KILLER sound, to convince my client that, no, Auto-Tune WON'T make it unnecessary for him to work on his singing, and that, yes, recording is a fun and rewarding and creative process.

You just gotta be prepared to bring some chops to the table!

Back in my college days, I was into motorcycle roadracing. You had to buy (or swap for the parts to build, or any combination thereof) the motorcycle, you had to safety-wire all the nuts, tape the breakable parts, buy the leathers and the helmet and the gloves, and all this was before you even unloaded the bike off your truck or trailer at the track! The price of admission was high, and there was an understanding that there were no shortcuts.

Equally with recording. While the price of admission is low, the price of recording or mixing or mastering is always the same: what we used to call "seat time" on motorcycles. There is a learning curve, and a lot of material to master, and you might as well acknowledge it at the start.

The difference is, anybody with an attitude and a little gear can make a recording. There's no checkered flag. When you're racing, if you aren't up to snuff, you get blown into the weeds. Which may or may not be a good thing, but you know where you stand vis-a-vis the pros. With recording, a little knowledge gets you...

...the mistaken belief that you know what you're doing.

Those of us who have a few miles in know there are no shortcuts to the finish line.
 
lp...

well said. and i agree with your idea just about entirely. but the point you're missing is that I DON'T know what i'm doing, never said i did, and therefore i asked. I'm really scratching my head as to why it's bad to ask for guidance from those with "miles under their belt." but i'm lucky enough to have this interweb deal to do so: to ask questions. i was not aware that there is this "pay your dues" clause and i realize that i'm guilty of cutty into my "seat time." just because i have a cheap software and cheap mics and a non "hit it big" mentality doesn't make me less privy to someone else's knowledge. (anyone needs cooking tips, fire away.)

to continue with you're analogy, I just want to ride the side roads when i have the free time. i just want an old honda 350, a helmet and some tacky shades and ride the non busy roads. why is it road-racing or bust? absurd to think that there is no middle ground. i have no aspirations of being a commercial recording engineer/studio owner and I never compared myself to the pros. I just thought i'd ask them a question. that's one of the ways of getting chops, right?

Thanks,
Jason
 
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