"mastering" tips

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jason Molinari
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Jason Molinari

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just being a home recordist, i wouldn't call the stage i'm in as mastering but it's toward the end.

just curious about tips to get me in the ballpark for the final product. i'm about 80% there but i can tell i need a final bump and a little gloss to get these turds a final coat.

i'm more or less looking for numbers/settings/effects to start from and then go from there. and can i go back and forth on settings within edit view?

i'm in cool edit pro 2.0.

thanks.
jason
 
Jason Molinari said:
i'm more or less looking for numbers/settings/effects to start from and then go from there
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No such thing.... the first step to mastering is LISTENING to your mix and critically analyzing it sonically. Once you've figured out what (if anything) is deficient, you select the most appropriate tool(s) to correct it. And that's going to vary from song to song, so there are no "starting" presets.... your ears tell you where to start (and sometimes it starts with remixing it altogether - mastering is a finishing polish, and not supposed to be a fix-a-bad-mix process...)
 
mastering help

bruce...

thank you for the words.

but i couldn't disagree more with "no starting preset." i do recognize that music is a very subjective...thing, but again, i just asked for directions and not for a final answer. i know i'm hearing something "off" in these tunes that is happening somewhere in between the mixing and hearing it on my stereo/ipod. You actually asnwered what i need: polish. i just don't know where to get it. the mixes sound good ('turd' was kind of a joke...)

i'm a chef by trade and if someone asked me how to cook chicken or fish or steak or veggies, i'd get 'em in the "correct" vicinity of temperature, cooking time and seasoning. they may hate it but it gets the ball moving. in the end, you'll find your cooking method that tastes best to you and who you're feeding.

so to say that there are not any"starting presets" is a total cop out and kills the creative process.

anyone else?

thanks,
jason.m.
 
i dissagree with you dissagreeing with BB... peace out!!
 
Jason Molinari said:
so to say that there are not any"starting presets" is a total cop out and kills the creative process.
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So answer me this -- how long is a piece of string?
 
how does "not using presets" kill the creative process? i would think it would be the other way around.... ?
 
mastering help

Gee...Thanks for the help.

How long is a piece of string? Hmmm. I'm not the smartest guy by any stretch but I'm failing to find any kind of logical connection to my question and this question.

The creative process is killed because I"m now spending time finding what tools i need to use and how to use them. Again, to my analogy, someone askes me a cooking question, i don't just say cook it and then hope that they don't burn the house down or poison themselves or cut a finger off.

i simply asked a question of what to use and where to start from people that are smarter than me and have more experience doing this.

has it occurred to either of you that (recording) message boards are based on starting points?

So, again, anyone else care to share their thoughts?

Thanks,
Jason
 
Jason Molinari said:
i simply asked a question of what to use and where to start
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And I TOLD you where to start.....
...the first step to mastering is LISTENING to your mix and critically analyzing it sonically...
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What you do after that depends ENTIRELY on what you hear during that first step....

I don't understand why you're not getting this.... :cool:

There's no "magic preset" that you start each song with - nor is there a "start with this, then do that" process to follow during mastering. Mastering is about LISTENING, then doing what the listening tells you needs doing which varies COMPLETELY from song to song (and could mean anything from a simple level adjustment to a full remix)..........
 
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Here is a (hopefully) better way to undertand the problem.

You are asking "How do I fix my car".

You can't even begin to anser that question without a diagnosis. Same with mastering. You can't even begin to answer the question without a diagnosis. There is no "standard" way to fix a car. It all depends on what's wrong, what make it is, etc, etc...... Same with mastering.
 
Jason Molinari said:
i'm a chef by trade and if someone asked me how to cook chicken or fish or steak or veggies, i'd get 'em in the "correct" vicinity of temperature, cooking time and seasoning. they may hate it but it gets the ball moving. in the end, you'll find your cooking method that tastes best to you and who you're feeding.
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What if I asked you "what's wrong with this dish?" but I told you not to taste it before answering?

What I do is to take a recording I like the sound of with similar intruments in a similar style and compare the two. If I can't get in the ballpark with some light compression and minor eq tweaks, I remix it.
 
mastering help

Really, i'm sorry i asked. .

Leddy: fair enough point. i have pop songs, jangly guitars, fuzzy guitars, keys, 4/4 time, couple of vocal tracks. Does that help? Didn't think so. But you said it: i just want to get in the ballpark and I can go from there.That's all i'm asking.

NL5: my first post was kind of a diagnosis...bout 80% there but still needs a boost and a little shine. losing a little between the range and the first tee, if you will. i just don't know how to get these things.

The point that none of you seem to understand is that I didn't ask for absolutes. And by all means never expected someone to "fix" my mix without hearing it. And if it came off like that, I apologize. I only asked for directions for those smarter and more experienced than me. i just can't understand why nobody can share an experience; a technique or setting. why have this or any message board if the answer is "....listen" was i wrong to ask for help?

And if someone's food sucked, I'd ask questions. Ones that the inexperienced don't know to ask.

Thanks,
Jason
 
On my last mastering project, I had to reduce the bass at least 2-3dB on most tracks because the client had mixed them far too bass-heavy..........

There - does that help you? Didn't think so.... now do you see why there are no "starting points"?????????? *sheesh*

You want questions? Here's one.... what are you hearing or not hearing in your mixes that you think needs changing/shaping?
 
mastering help

Thanks. Bruce, your example fails on so many levels that 'starting points' don't exist. it's one instance, one time. i was looking for an overall, "try this, might not work for you, but it's worked for me..." kinda thing. So yes, I still feel that 'starting points' exisit.

I said it in my first post, that i'm missing a little boost and a little gloss in the final product when i A/B 'ed it with mastered songs. (and i understand that real mastered and manufactured cd's are different. but i still think that mine can get better.) the mix is very nice but the playback on my consumer stereo was a little low and lacking; yet the mixes and stereo mixdown were hitting the red just above 0db (not pegged in the red) and sounded good after LISTENING and tweaking them for the last 5 days.

And they are a little bass heavy but i'm having trouble figuring out if its the vocal or the bass. nothing that mastering will fix, but your tip may help.

i post here because there seems to be good answers given by knowledgable people. I fail to see how my question is any different than the numerous "subjective" questions on this message board, yet i'm told that it's too subjective of a topic and to figure it out myself. i don't see any creative progress in that.

Thanks,
Jason
 
Hmmm...

I'm being serious here, as is everyone esle. There are no presets that will help you learn mastering. They will all make it harder to learn.

Start with NOTHING. Then add a compressor or an EQ and see what it does.

For example, add a compressor and zero it out- threshold 0db, ratio 1:1, gain 0dB: no compression at all. Then bump the ratio to 1.5:1 and start moving the threshold around to see what it does. Then do the same with a 2:1 ratio, etc. Dont foget to alter attack and release values- they make a huge difference.

Then try the EQ- again start with it zero'd out and making no changes. Grab a control and start moving it to see what it does. Listen to each element of the mix to see how the EQ is changing it.

Then try them together. Change which one you put first to see how they sound different. You have to play with it- there is no other way to NOT mess up your mixs more than you help them. If you have mastering presets in those plugs try 'em, but don't expect them to sound all that hot. Each mix responds differently. (shrug)

Enjoy!
Chris
 
mastering help

and "they" say the dumbest question is the one not asked. a first time for everything i suppose. apparently i've created a legacy for myself today.

i'm wrong. not the first time.

won't happen again. objective questions from now on.

thanks,
jason
 
Jason Molinari said:
I"m now spending time finding what tools i need to use and how to use them.
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Ah HA! Don't know how I missed that - THAT is the point, entirely.

You NEED to know what the tools do. You NEED to how a particular mix will react to particular settings from particular tools.

You need to listen to the mix and listen to what it's asking for. I'll probably sound like a broken record, but this is why it's generally not a great idea to master your own mixes - If you're not hearing what it's asking for in the mixing stage, another stage isn't going to help anything.

But it's absolutely true - There are NO presets. There are NO starting points. The meal is already cooked - You're just deciding on the best garnish at this point - This is the finishing touch - It's the spice, not the main course.

The point is to listen to the mix and *know* what it needs and what will get it there. Every mix will be different. They might need similar variations - Several mixes from the same project *might* benefit from similar starting points, but no one can tell you what those starting points are.

For example - I have 3 "key" compressors here - It's almost guaranteed that audio will pass through one (or more) of them. WHICH one isn't decided until I'm listening to the mix. Then, it isn't time for experimentation - It's time for knowing which one(s) will be used and what settings will get me into the tweaking stage. Experimenting is fine for learning - But experiment on things that you're not working on. Otherwise, you'll spend all of your time getting nowhere and second-guessing what you've done already.

There's nothing wrong with subjective questions either - But give 5 M.E.'s a project to work on and give them all the same chain to work with and you're almost guranteed to get 5 different results.

And that's not to say that presets are entirely bad - But a preset has to simply fit the need. If you've got a tune that's a little "tubby" in the 300Hz range and a preset that makes a bit of a cut in the 300Hz range, then that's a valid starting point. But (A) only YOU know if the mix is a little tubby in the 300Hz range and (B) if the preset cuts at 250Hz instead, it's pretty worthless to you as a starting point.

To revisit the start -
Jason Molinari said:
I"m now spending time finding what tools i need to use and how to use them.
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That should've been the priority before anything else anyway.
 
Massive Master said:
You NEED to know what the tools do. You NEED to how a particular mix will react to particular settings from particular tools.

that was my initial question that nobody has taken the time to answer. what tools do i use and in your experience, where is a good place to start with these tools.

You need to listen to the mix and listen to what it's asking for. I'll probably sound like a broken record, but this is why it's generally not a great idea to master your own mixes - If you're not hearing what it's asking for in the mixing stage, another stage isn't going to help anything.

i made the point clear that i'm not a mastering engineer and was only looking for a little bump and gloss. i can't affort a mastering engineer and this is only a hobby.

But it's absolutely true - There are NO presets. There are NO starting points. The meal is already cooked - You're just deciding on the best garnish at this point - This is the finishing touch - It's the spice, not the main course.

The point is to listen to the mix and *know* what it needs and what will get it there.

I have listened and I don't know, hence the question in the first place.

Again, sorry for the dumb question. You all have taught me my lesson for today.

Thanks,
Jason
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Jason, if you don't mind, you could post the song. That would enable us to help you more with your problem. Learning to master isn't something you can accomplish in a week, month, or even a year! So I hear it takes quite a few years to learn the craft, which is why I highly respect Blue Bear and Massive Mastering. (Though you can't really put a timing on how fast it would take to learn it, but I know it takes a while) :cool:

Good Luck.
 
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